Hey Matt, I'm at a loss as to why this would be the case. We've used Marantz units without experiencing this issue. I do have a suggestion though, if you can't get the LFE level down low enough (that's the problem, right?), then turn up the levels on all the other speaker channels (that is, if they are all set to 0dB for instance, set them all for +10dB instead, except for sub/LFE level of course). That should give you the added adjustment range needed. Just keep in mind that your master volume will now be 10dB hotter, so you'll need to readjust your use of "normal" levels down 10dB on the dial. As far as other receivers, The Anthem, NAD and Pioneer Elite are on our recommended list too, although forum members should have lots of suggestions for you.

Moderator, can you elaborate on what setups you've used. Can you positively confirm that you've used Triton Ones with NO OTHER SUBS and used both speaker level inputs and LFE inputs on the Tritons? And can you elaborate on how you calibrated the system? Not just "we didn't experience an issue". Does that mean you worked around a 20dB difference between the L/R channel and the LFE or that there was NOT a 20dB difference.

Here's my calibration process since Audyssey has been poo pooed. So I go into my AVR menu and turn off EVERYTHING related to Audyssey and EQ. That includes the dynamic range expander stuff. Everything is off. Then I go into the menu where I set the speaker levels. This is like the old school AVRs before auto calibration exists. They run pink noise (bandwidth filtered for the LFE I believe) through each channel as you select that channel. So I get a SHHHHHHH sound from the left speaker. My SPL meter reads 72dB when the trim for that speaker is set to 0. I go around each channel. The LCR are pretty much the same level. The surrounds are within 1-2dB of the fronts depending on if you're talking side surrounds or rear surrounds. When I get around to the sub channel its over 90dB. Like in the 92-94 dB range. What I'm specifically asking is, when you set up for shows if you did the procedure I just described, what would the LFE output be. Would it be 90 or would it be around 70? If its around 70, then I think there's something wrong still with my setup and given T Cobe, Matt and I all have different setups, I'm beginning to wonder if there is something amiss with the speakers (perhaps the input stage of the amplifier).

Given your angry and dismissive responses to everything I say to be helpful, and your comment on AVS that his forum is not helpful, you can surely understand why I am rather hesitant to reply to you.

Here are what I believe to be factual (only) answers to the questions I believe you are asking:

1) I personally have setup dozens (maybe more) systems in the fashion described. It is also true many systems are connected without the sub cables for simplicity, and as long as the receiver doesn't do anything stupid the only loss is the ability to separately control LFE level;
2) GoldenEar has used this setup at trade shows, never ever using an outboard sub in addition to the Triton subs;
3) The most recent company demo I can recall with this setup was CEDIA 2014 with four Triton Towers in an Atmos setup using an Integra 80.6 Atmos Pre/Pro. We actually used Audyssey for that setup, no issues (not for L/R);
4) The method you describe is exactly what process I/we follow, turn off all the "stuff" and set distances and levels manually;
5) No matter what we might set the bass/LFE levels at, Sandy always turns them up for the demos anyway
6) I can't answer your question about meter levels other than to say I don't recall there being any issue, although, as I've said before, bass levels were set to taste/ear. I never trust the tones/meters to be correct at low frequencies - believe someone on the forum mentioned starnge readings but when they listened it all sounded fine;
7) The likelihood of BOTH of your speakers having the same problem is darn close to zero;

Regarding item six, I don't recall you saying whether it SOUNDED wrong on movies, just that the numbers looked wrong and it sounded good with 2ch music playback. Does it sound "wrong" too?

And BTW, turning up the gain on the other channels does not change anything regarding amplifier clipping, it will happen at the same volume (not volume control) it did before.

I hope this helps, but if not, we would all appreciate it if you would not give an angry response.

I'm sorry to here that the proper LFE setting continues to challenge folks here. To be clear, it's only Audessey that is unhappy with my setup. I'm very happy with where it is at. I have my gain knob set between 12:00 and 13:00 on my T1s and am at about -10 dB in my Integra setup menu for the LFE. While I suspect I may be a bit high on LFE, that is where I like it and it sounds balanced to me. If I had a better sound level meter, I may find that I am closer than I thought to the reference level.

Thanks Moderator Dude for trying to provide us guidance. I know this is difficult to resolve on a forum for people with vastly different setups, rooms, listening preferences, etc. I feel the T1s offer enough setup flexibility that with a little bit of fine tuning, everyone should be able to get things setup to their preferred levels. Those of us that are more demanding, myself included, may have to change the gain knob between music and movies. I find myself switching between 12:00 and 13:00 depending on the recording. Some have too much bass. Source material adds another level of complexity...

Good luck, folks, getting things tuned in. I'm sure with a bit of patience you will find the right settings. Try not to get too wrapped around what Audessey wants and go with what sounds best. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

T Cobe

I agree with T. Cobe's thoughts. There are many variables involved in setting up an audio system. I have experimented with a number of variations with my equipment and I have reported upon the results in these GE Forums. I don't believe that there is just one "perfect setup". Variations in recordings, source material, music types, playback modes, etc. make it highly unlikely that I will ever achieve "a perfect setup". My goal is to find the best compromise to accommodate the different ways in which I experience the sound produced by my AV gear. A secondary goal is to enjoy the process of searching for musical nirvana.

Over many years I have both attended as a listener and performed as a singer, in many classical music events in a variety of acoustical settings, ranging from acoustically-dead venues to an old church with a 5+ second reverb. Hearing program material live in such varying venues certainly produces a variety of sonic experiences. Why then expect a home sound system to perform "perfectly" regardless of the same types of variations in both venues and source material? Not to mention the additional variables introduced through the interposition of electronics between the performance and the listener.

Seek perfection if you must, but remember to enjoy the chase and the musical stops along the way.

Happy listening to all,

Art

Marantz SR7010 & SR5009 both had the issue. I tried all the suggestions to get everything sounding "correct" to me. It was doable, but not ideal.

Cambridge Audio CXR 200 had no issue with setting up the subs on the T1's and my DefTech Supercube 2000. Set the gain at -4 with the LFE at 11:00 on the T1's and 11:00 on the DefTech Sub. Everything now sounds tight and "correct" to me.

So for me? I'm done with Marantz and Audyssey for now.

Moderator wrote: Given your angry and dismissive responses to everything I say to be helpful, and your comment on AVS that his forum is not helpful, you can surely understand why I am rather hesitant to reply to you.

Here are what I believe to be factual (only) answers to the questions I believe you are asking:

1) I personally have setup dozens (maybe more) systems in the fashion described. It is also true many systems are connected without the sub cables for simplicity, and as long as the receiver doesn't do anything stupid the only loss is the ability to separately control LFE level;
2) GoldenEar has used this setup at trade shows, never ever using an outboard sub in addition to the Triton subs;
3) The most recent company demo I can recall with this setup was CEDIA 2014 with four Triton Towers in an Atmos setup using an Integra 80.6 Atmos Pre/Pro. We actually used Audyssey for that setup, no issues (not for L/R);
4) The method you describe is exactly what process I/we follow, turn off all the "stuff" and set distances and levels manually;
5) No matter what we might set the bass/LFE levels at, Sandy always turns them up for the demos anyway
6) I can't answer your question about meter levels other than to say I don't recall there being any issue, although, as I've said before, bass levels were set to taste/ear. I never trust the tones/meters to be correct at low frequencies - believe someone on the forum mentioned starnge readings but when they listened it all sounded fine;
7) The likelihood of BOTH of your speakers having the same problem is darn close to zero;

Regarding item six, I don't recall you saying whether it SOUNDED wrong on movies, just that the numbers looked wrong and it sounded good with 2ch music playback. Does it sound "wrong" too?

And BTW, turning up the gain on the other channels does not change anything regarding amplifier clipping, it will happen at the same volume (not volume control) it did before.

I hope this helps, but if not, we would all appreciate it if you would not give an angry response.

Here are my final thoughts because I want to close this back and forth down. I don't think its healthy for either of us.

1) The Triton Ones sound FANTASTIC. They are wonderful speakers.
2) In my experience, it is trivially easy to get them balanced and get the right bass levels out of the speakers over a speaker level connection. In a two channel stereo only rig with a pre-amp/amp or integrated, it would be a 5 minute process with maybe some follow-up tweaking.
3) I've experienced some frustration getting my LFE setup including a disconnect between how my LFE measures (via Audyssey or an SPL meter) and how it sounds with actual movie content. And yes, to your #6 above, when following the recommendation by Sandy to raise the other channels and get the LFE level balanced that way, the bass sounded very light in movies.

So I feel like I've reached a good place for now. I've level set all my speakers with an SPL meter. I've set the gain on the Triton Ones to the right level for my room (around 11 o'clock) and I've set them to large in my AVR. I currently have my AVR set to sub=NO. I also set the LFE trim level to where its about 4-5dB higher than where it should be per my meter, which has no impact when Sub=NO. But, if I want to switch back and forth over the next few weeks and experiment I only have to toggle the Sub on/off. I have all the Audyssey and dynamic EQ settings turned off.

I'm posting a similar post on AVS to kind of bow out of that thread.