Hi, Charlie and hot_rod

I've enjoyed your discussion of streaming options, Tidal vs. Spotify, and who is really streaming what.

I stream through SONOS (though upsampled via Wyred 4 Sound upgrades to 96k and reclocked but still limited via SONOS to a max of 16k bit rate).

The only input I can add is that when I stream DEEZER Elite (the sister option to Tidal), I can see from the "info" button on SONOS that it is FLAC 44.1 quality. When I stream Spotify, again through SONOS, I cannot see via the "info" button that it has been upgraded past MP3 320 kbps. I'll have to play some more when I get back to TX. May depend on the service providing the streaming pass through????

Good stuff! We all want to feed our GEt's and systems the best!!!!

Happy listening!

Rick

Moderator wrote:

fbreynolds wrote: This is the output from Anthem Room Correction (ARC) on my Anthem MRX 1120 on the day the Reference speakers were installed. I don't understand the chart and I am not sure how well ARC measures frequencies below 20 Hz. However, it may give you a general idea of the response of a brand new Reference.

Looking at these graphs it looks like you mistakenly did not set the L/R mains to Full Range. If that is true, you need to start over.

Thanks for looking at this. The original ARC scans were done by the guys from Audio Advice who set them up.
I am planning to do the room correction again soon, and therefore I appreciate all of the advice I am getting.

rjohn79395 wrote: Hi, Charlie and hot_rod

I've enjoyed your discussion of streaming options, Tidal vs. Spotify, and who is really streaming what.

I stream through SONOS (though upsampled via Wyred 4 Sound upgrades to 96k and reclocked but still limited via SONOS to a max of 16k bit rate).

The only input I can add is that when I stream DEEZER Elite (the sister option to Tidal), I can see from the "info" button on SONOS that it is FLAC 44.1 quality. When I stream Spotify, again through SONOS, I cannot see via the "info" button that it has been upgraded past MP3 320 kbps. I'll have to play some more when I get back to TX. May depend on the service providing the streaming pass through????

I finally bit the bullet and signed up for Tidal to give it a try. Hi Res option. Turns out that I control my Oppo Tidal streaming via the Oppo smart phone app, which is pretty slick and easy to use.

So I noticed some things about Tidal. I was streaming away and my DAC showed 44.1 kHz, fine, but I looked in the options of my controller app and found it was set to a lower bit rate! I reset it to Hi Res, and my DAC still showed 44.1 kHz. So it may be that the Oppo player upsamples mp3 to 44.1 before outputting.

I also found that Tidal can't handle classical gapless play. When you encounter a track change in the middle of continuous music, the music stops while the next track loads. Seems to be better suited for popular music than classical.

I did compare sound quality between Tidal Hi-Res and my own 44.1 kHz flac file of the same music, and they sounded absolutely identical, right down to the terrible Sony piano sound engineering.

Not sure I'll stick with it, I'll give it some time.

Charlie

Another update on my TRefs. I now have 80 hours on them, and 40 hours on my Bel Canto amps. Things are probably still breaking in, but the sound now is absolutely terrific. Pure, smooth, effortless highs, rich midrange, tons of detail, superb imaging, crystal clear transients, and absolutely non-fatiguing to listen to. I did some final speaker location tweaking, and I think I'm done there.

I've been ripping my Mercury Living Presence CD set. Many of these recordings were made in the early to mid-1950s, and you can clearly hear differences in microphone placement technique compared to later recordings. Somewhere around 1958 or so, they learned some new tricks, and the recordings have much better, more modern sound. All that is clearly audible from what is now a very transparent system. The same is true of the RCA Living Stereo recordings.

Probably my last update on this. I'm completely satisfied as to the speaker and amp performance. This is really at a high level now.

Charlie

Glad to hear they sound awesome, I am going to have to check out the Bel Canto as an option when I upgrade down the line!
My own TRefs are getting better and better as I break them in (~20hrs now?). The detail is crazy, and the bass is awesome. My wife was watching TV on them the other night and I was in the adjacent room with half-open wall in between; some of the subtle background bass detail on a normal TV soundtrack had me thinking there was someone knocking at our front door.

RE: Tidal non-gapless --- I too found that the Tidal service had a slight lag between tracks when played on Yamaha (didn't test gapless albums, just talking about clicking 'next track'!) . Due to the size of FLAC files, I would assume it is something to do with internet speed and also decoding speed of the receiver. I also thought it could be due to the poor Yamaha app since it had loading 'spinning wheels' even between menu screens (vs spotify where everything works in real time). I wonder if a device like Bluesound would be better at it than the 'built in' versions like your Oppo and my Yamaha receiver. Maybe there is some kind of firmware tweak they will add down the road to allow tracks in an album to be 'buffered' ahead of the prior track finishing, to address this. In any case, interesting to hear your report that the quality (when playing) is identical to your 44.1 content...I truly believe this method of distribution is the future of music, once residential internet speeds and decoding devices are up to the challenge. Of note, I do not find this same 'start-up' lag using the Spotify (with its 'PCM'...?). I know spotify has a gapless option for when I use it on iPhone, but when streaming to the receiver using SpotifyConnect I cannot control that setting. If you have Spotify access via the Oppo would be interested in your thoughts on how it compares, if you have a chance at some point to do a trial there too.

Charlie, that is a great report and wonderful that you can say with finality that your system has "arrived".
Well Done, good for you!!!!!
It sounds like your system now is VERY highly resolving to be able to hear the differences in mikes and miking techniques from 60 years ago.
I would think that means hearing the advantage of Hi Res music recordings over normal should also be easier to catch.
Will hope to chat with you more along those lines over on the Hi Res thread.
hot_rod, wish I could help you guys on the streaming questions, but I cannot, there is not a musical stream running by our home.
We do have a pond I can catch fish from though.
I prefer to and do own my music.
Also, playback that is not gapless is terrible.
Those were my 2 cents worth.
Happy listening as you guys break in your new speakers!
God Bless,
Wayne