Hi, Art

Maybe I'm missing something here... you asked if I could test the front/surround speakers for relative SL's if driven at the same gain level/same receiver (to see how much the relative efficiency differences of T Ref's vs. T1's affects what is heard at the PLP.(Did I get that right?) I believe that's what we tried awhile ago when I ran 2 channel classical music , zero gain all around, via multi channel format to the Ref's and T1's, and reported that the effect at the PLP was pretty good, though I liked it better with the 3-4 db gain I usually run on the T1 surrounds? Or is there another set up you'd like me to try?

Again , maybe I'm missing something, but with 2 Cambridge units, can you run multi channel to all channels, and have gain control for each channel? In multi channel, or all channel or whatever Cambridge labels it, the right channel is played to all right speakers, the left channel to all left speakers. That would leave you with gain control for each channel, and the same content going to surrounds as fronts (if both are set as large) without needing to connect the surrounds to the B terminal and lose the ability to separately control gain. (It's a different story with surround formats, where, depending on the surround mixer, very different content can go to different channels. When I play 2 channel music in multi channel format, the right surround is playing exactly the same content as the right front. When I play Dolby Surround, the mixer doesn't give the same content to surrounds as fronts).

So, maybe it's a question of whether you want to play your 2 channel in multi channel, or surround, where the control options may be different to insure you're getting the same content to fronts and surrounds? And if your goal IS to feed the same content to fronts and surrounds to assure you're giving the surrounds plenty of meat to play, is multi channel the better option?

Can you let me know more details on what you'd like me to test?

Happy listening and testing!

Rick

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your detailed response. To answer your questions:

1. My Cambridge 851A is a 2-channel stereo integrated amp with the ability to drive two sets of speakers simultaneously - but, there are no independent level controls for the "A" and "B" speakers. I have the Ones connected to the "A" terminals and the Sevens connected to the "B" terminals. There is enough efficiency difference between the Ones and the Sevens to permit the Ones to predominate at my PLP. My question therefore is: If I connect the References to the "A" terminals and move the Ones to the rear of the room and connect them to the "B" terminals, will there be a similar efficiency difference between the Refs and the Ones to permit the Refs to predominate?

2. My Cambridge CXR120 is a multi-channel AV Receiver with independently adjustable volume controls for each active speaker. I am using this capability to adjust the SuperSat 3s and the KLH 283As to support the Ones and the Sevens. I understand the difference between all-channel stereo mode and Dolby modes with regard to perceived sound levels.

So, a useful test, if you can pull it off, would be to play something with just your Refs and Ones active in all-channel mode and with both sets adjusted to 0 db gain to learn whether or not the Refs are louder than the Ones.

Thanks.

Art

Hi, Art

That’s the test I did awhile ago, and yes the Ref’s were louder at the PLP. It takes 3-4 dB gain for the T1’s to “fill in” for maximum effect with sound stage still in front. With zero gain on the 1’s, there was still a pleasing sound added by the 1’s, but for me more pleasing with 3-4 dB gain.

Can you deliver that same “front channel” input to the surrounds via the CXR120 in multi channel mode and also have separate gain control on those channels?
I like to fine tune the relative gain of fronts vs surrounds for maximum effect.

Rick

rjohn79395 wrote: Hi, Art

That’s the test I did awhile ago, and yes the Ref’s were louder at the PLP. It takes 3-4 dB gain for the T1’s to “fill in” for maximum effect with sound stage still in front. With zero gain on the 1’s, there was still a pleasing sound added by the 1’s, but for me more pleasing with 3-4 dB gain.

Can you deliver that same “front channel” input to the surrounds via the CXR120 in multi channel mode and also have separate gain control on those channels?
I like to fine tune the relative gain of fronts vs surrounds for maximum effect.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your reply and for the comparison data. If I were to acquire the References, I would move the Sevens to the "Sides/Behind" position and move the Ones to the rear. The SuperSat 3s would remain in their current "Front high" position on the shelves behind my primary fronts.

I have several amplifier/speaker connection options.

My first choice would be to connect the Ones to the "B" speaker terminals on my Cambridge 851A Stereo Amp, my SuperSat 3s to the Fronts on the CXR120 Receiver and my Sevens to the Surrounds n the CXR120. This arrangement would provide separate level control for the SuperSat 3s to balance their front support sound to the primary fronts (my current arrangement and connections). This arrangement works if the Ones played well with the References without needing separate volume control. This arrangement also permits me to run the CXR120 in a Dolby mode to provide surround sound support via the Side Sevens.

My second choice would be to connect the Ones to the Front terminals on the CXR120, which would provide separate level control for the Ones. But, with this choice, I would then connect the SuperSat 3s to the 851A "B" terminals and the Sevens to the CXR120 surrounds. This works if the SuperSat 3s and the References played well together without the need to adjust the volume separately on the 3s. Again, with this choice, I could use the Sevens in a surround-sound support role.

My least-preferred option would be to connect both the 3s and the Ones to the CXR120, along with the Sevens, in order to have separate level control over all three sets of support speakers. This approach limits my use of the CXR120 to all-channel listening mode, which introduces some other issues in my setup.

But, based upon my experience and your analysis of the References and the Ones, I believe that I could successfully implement the References with either of my 1st two choices.

Best,

Art

HI Rick and Everybody,

After a couple of days listening to the Sevens and the Ones connected to the Cambridge 851A Stereo Amp, I have concluded that the difference you mentioned between your References and Ones might be similar to the Ones and the Sevens. I have found that I would like a bit more sound from my Sevens in their rear support role.

So, I will move the Sevens connection to the CXR120 and move the SuperSat 3s connection to the "B" speaker terminals of the 851A. Then, I will re-balance the sound levels using my SPL meter.

Then, more listening. Tough duty..........

Art

After a number of days of listening and experimenting, I have settled (for the time being) upon the following arrangement:

1. Triton Ones positioned as Front L/R and connected to my Cambridge 851A Stereo Amp.

2. Triton Sevens positioned as Side l/R and behind my PLP and connected as Front L/R to my Cambridge CXR120 7.2 Amp.

3. Triton SuperSat3 positioned as Rear L/R and directly behind my PLP and connected as Surround L/R to my Cambridge CXR120 Amp.

4. Paradigm DSP 3400 Sub positioned between my Triton Ones and connected to LFE 1 Output on my Cambridge CXR120.

The Triton Ones are slightly toed-in, but pointed to positions well to the L/R of my PLP.

The Triton Sevens are elevated such that they point upwards and they are angled toward my PLP from their "side/behind" positions. I accomplished this elevation by using much longer screws in the front holes on the bases of the Triton Sevens so that they point upwards.

The SuperSat 3s are sitting on a desk on in the rear of the room, pointed straight toward the back of my PLP.

Because the Sevens and SuperSats are connected to a multi-channel amp, I am able to separately adjust their relative volume levels. I have them adjusted to "balance the sound in the room" without drawing attention to them when sitting in my PLP.

I have the overall sound levels of the two Cambridge units set such that the Ones predominate as the primary sound source. The Sevens and the SuperSat 3s are not noticeable as sound sources, unless I turn off the CXR120, in which case the room becomes noticeably less "live".

I am sending a PCM 2-channel digital signal to the CXR120 and I have the sound reproduction option set to Dolby PL IIx Music - resulting in the SuperSat3s being driven as Surrounds.

With this setup, I now have an "exclusively GE speaker" arrangement (the KLH speakers are no longer active). I am very pleased with this arrangement. I may yet decide to add the References to the mix, but that possibility seems to be diminishing in likelihood.

We will see what happens as I go along and after Sheryl's early April meeting with the Chief Thoracic Surgeon at Duke.

Happy listening to all,

Art