Hey T. Cobe,
Thanks for your interest and helpful comments.
I am not sure I am so unusual. As for movies, I can get enough boom in my box. So for surround sound, when using the T 3s in the rear and the FF5 at the back, the T 2s all hooked up on LFE, I do alright on explosions and such. But that is not music.
For music I want to hear DEEP BASS when it should be present. That I don't have. I am sure your Triton Ones do much better in that department than my Twos.
In POS, poor old stereo, trying to integrate a sub is difficult, one in the back of the room much more difficult.
For blu ray concerts, SACDs, DVD Audio, etc. I do have all the LFE help and it is OK, pretty good, but not articulate, tuneful, deep bass from organ or double bass, rock bass.
I have the room tamed better now, yes, I am sure specialty sub room EQs, but I don't think cancellation is my problem.
My expectations MAY be the problem, but IF so, I can't help that.
When putting together my home theater, I made the decision that I could not afford the 15 in sub I wanted, and now I am trying to live with that decision. Not being rich, well ........ what to say that isn't a stupid first world problem?
God Bless,
Wayne

Wayne,

My T1s are great but to be honest, I didn't hear a significant difference in the bass response between the T1s and T2s when playing back 2-channel music. The biggest difference to me was in the mid range and overall clarity. I wonder if moving your FF5 up front, between your T2s wouldn't be better if you are using it for POS. From what I've read, that is the ideal location. It may sound a little disjointed in the back of the room when the music is all up front.

My other guess is that you need two settings. One for music and one for theater/multi-channel. With all that time and money invested, it's a shame you haven't dialed it in. I don't suppose there is a custom installer that could come and calibrate your system?

Cheers,

T Cobe

Hi, Wayne and T Cobe

Maybe room characteristics play a part here, but I'd have to say that when I installed the T1's, the bass just blossomed, even playing by themselves in 2 channel, but also of course in surround mode with T1's and T2's adding bass in four locations.

Rick

WayneWilmeth wrote: Hi Imahawki,
I agree totally it is all in the implementation of whichever technology is being used.
And I agree totally that tests should be standardized so it is all apples and apples.
And Moderator Dude, I agree totally that a LOT about those tests does not tell the whole story. But IF there is any point in reporting frequency response, for example, then report the low end as -3dB as is agreed practice, or not at all. IF amps report WPC, then report the total harmonic distortion at so many ohms RMS all channels driven.
Measurements are only what they are, and should be used (or not) as a rough guide. But playing with how the numbers are reported does not serve for better understanding.
We all have read of Brand X receiver with 7 channels amplification having 1000 watts!!!! When it really has 50 wpc if reported correctly.
I am not interested in getting into an argument over testing or specifications.
Just trying to bring a little balance to the issue.
Happy Listening,
God Bless,
Wayne

Thanks Wayne, but let's make sure we are distinguishing between "electrical" tests and "sonic" tests. Electrical tests are meaningful in and of themselves (RMS power is the best example), as long as the standards of measurement are the same (like you said, all channels driven, 20-20K, at specified distortion is the preferred reality test), you can make comparisons. Unfortunately, the results of these tests tell you nothing about how the amp sounds on a particular speaker, or how loud it will make it play. But Sonic test measurements, regardless if they are all apples to apples (and they NEVER are), absolutely do not describe the listening experience differences in any meaningful way, or in any way that can allow for comparison or decision making. Listening is the only valid tool we have today, comparing speakers and subs by the specs or by some random test is beyond worthless, its misleading.

rickavmaniac wrote: I am wondering if 2 x ForceField 5 would be better than 1 x SuperSub XXL?

In my room I can place 2 sub no problem. The budget for those options is the same.

So what should I do?

Not suggesting one vs. two, but I will tell you the SuperSub XXL has FOUR TIMES the output of the ForceField 5 at 25 Hz.

T Cobe wrote: My other guess is that you need two settings. One for music and one for theater/multi-channel.

This is actually the preferred solution, and we are seeing more and more receivers and processors that allow for different audio modes, one for music and one for movies. It is hard to have both exactly as you want it in a single setup. Some powered Triton system users have found that setting the system up for good balance with two channel music, and then dialing up the LFE level on their receiver/processor, gets them close to the desired balance for both.