Hi Wayne,

The Law of Diminishing Returns appears to apply especially to choices we have in our "audio world". The question for me is whether or not acquiring a new piece of audio gear will actually enhance my listening experience. It is not hard for me to justify acquiring a new capability, such as my relatively-recent addition of a device to ease and improve the process of transferring LPs to FLAC files.

However, upgrading existing capabilities with the hope of making a significant improvement in overall sound quality is a different matter altogether. The problem for me is that it is generally not practical or possible to audition upgraded gear in my environment. Just reading specs does not entice me to replace existing gear. And, I continue to believe that, if the gear I have is functioning properly and is of a decent quality and capability, then the old adage; "the speakers are the weakest links in the chain" still applies.

I think that you and I collectively offer a fine example of the difficulties of trying to make objective sense of the subjective audio experience. You are both visually and audibly oriented and derive significant pleasure from the combination of audio/video presentations. On the other hand, I am uninterested in watching an audio presentation. Even when I attend live concerts, I quickly lose interest in watching the performers on stage and I find myself with my eyes closed while listening to the music. You enjoy the effects of multi-channel audio presentations. I am interested in enhancements to the "sound-stage" only to the extent of adding a bit of room ambiance. Then, there is the effect of the type of music to which we listen......

Unless I have something in my electronics chain fail, I am not likely to replace any of my existing amplifiers, DACs, etc. However, even though the Refs are expensive, I am still considering their acquisition because I believe that I would readily hear the difference in my room -- not only from the Refs as Fronts, but also by using the Ones as Rear Fronts (not surround backs). Again, a quirk of my particular setup and approach which would result in a much more sonically-significant role for my Ones than would be the case in a normal surround-back role.

But, for the moment, other considerations prevail and the decision process has been put on temporary hold.

Happy listening,

Art

Hey, Art

We GEt fans are all in a "can't get much better" zone. 99.99% of the listening public would be totally blown away by the set up you already have!!!!!!

So, tickle your upgradeitis however you want, but you already have amazing gear and speakers!

Happy listening and experimenting whatever you do!

Rick

Hi Rick,

I agree with you. I think GE speakers are a terrific value and I have enjoyed the years of listening pleasure my GE speakers have provided.

I do enjoy my little experiments and contemplating an upgrade to the Refs is a pleasant experience.

Right now, I am working with my Paradigm sub and my Ones to see if I can improve the very low frequency response while maintaining the musically-correct upper bass sounds. I still have my Cambridge Preamp output connected to my Ones LFE inputs, but I have turned the Ones LFE control to minimum. I have my Paradigm sub connected to the Sub 1 output on my Onkyo and I have turned the Onkyo Double Bass ON to provide analog bass to the Paradigm. I have the Paradigm Low Frequency control set to just above minimum (maybe 40-45 Hz?). Then, I have the Paradigm level control set to mid-point. I have the LFE cutoff in the Onkyo set to 80 Hz (lowest setting).

The idea is to provide very low bass to the Paradigm (low pipe organ tones, for example), then to provide just a slight bit of bass augmentation to the Ones to preserve the musicality of the upper bass tones (bowed double basses, for example). I am currently listening to the Widor 5th Organ Symphony (the famous Widor toccata is the last movement of this organ piece). Lots of low organ pedal tones to hear.

We'll see....

Happy listening,

Art

DISASTER STRIKES (Maybe with a Silver Lining)!!!

As I mentioned in my last post, I am working with the LFE setting and my Paradigm Sub, with the goal of using the Paradigm to enhance very low bass , while allowing the Ones to handle the entire bass range. After adjusting the Paradigm and the LFE cutoff in the Onkyo, I noticed that the present position of the Paradigm (on my right side about 5 feet away) was providing too much location-identifiable bass. So, I decided to relocate the Paradigm to the front of the room so that it can sit between the Ones.

This change caused me to need to alter cable arrangements and to move my Klipsch Sub (part of my Video sound system) to the other side of the room. In order to alter cable arrangements, I needed to pull my very heavy Onkyo Receiver slightly forward so that I could make the needed cable changes. I have made this move many times before, but this time, I apparently moved the Onkyo just a bit too far forward. When I turned my back for a moment, the Onkyo decided to tumble off the shelf and on to the floor.

The unit fell face-forward about 2 feet, but nothing appeared to be broken. However, when I restored it to the shelf and turned it on, I discovered that there has apparently been some internal damage. It will not play, although many functions seem to be OK. I suspect that I knocked something loose in the unit.

After cussing the situation for a bit, I decided to replace the Onkyo with a very old Sony STR-DE 885 5.1 Receiver from my ancient collection. To do so required some configuration changes. The Triton Sevens are connected to the Sony Fronts. The KLH Sides are connected to the Sony Surrounds. The Paradigm Sub is connected to the Sony Sub output. The SuperSat 3's are connected to the Cambridge "B" Speaker terminals, while remaining in their "Front Height" locations..

I am now listening to this arrangement and working on balancing the levels of the Sony to the Cambridge. I am driving the Sony with an analog output from my Cambridge DAC.

One advantage the Sony offers is the ability to set the LFE cutoff frequency as low as 40 Hz This low cutoff supports my use of the Paradigm for the very low bass. The Onkyo's lowest cutoff was 80 Hz.

I am going to attempt to troubleshoot the Onkyo myself. If I can fix it, fine. If not, it becomes trash. I've had too much trouble over the years with this series of Onkyo Receivers to even think about commercial repair. If I fix it, I may still not restore it to use, if I decide I prefer the sounds of the new arrangement.

More later.............

Art.

DISASTER UPDATE:

I talked to Onkyo Technical Support on Friday. The unit is well out of warranty and, in fact, is now obsolete. The closest authorized independent service location is 200 miles away. I mentioned to Onkyo that I had previously used this service location with poor results. Onkyo replied that the factory service location nearest to me was 425 miles away (in Michigan). They had no other recommendation. I did not really expect any help from Onkyo and they did not offer any.

This afternoon, I dismantled the Onkyo Receiver to see if I could find an obvious problem, such as a loose interconnect, etc. I worked on the unit for about an hour with no positive results. As I have previously reported, I have never been happy with this receiver. Over the years since my original purchase, I have had three of them and all of them have had some sort of problem, with the first two failing catastrophically with a few months of purchase.

I have therefore declared it to be surplus and I will try to figure out how to dispose of a 45-pound piece of useless electronics. I will investigate other options. Meanwhile, my very old Sony STR-DE 885 5.1 channel receiver is humming along as the replacement in my music audio system.

So long, Onkyo..............

Art

Hey, Art

Your store of back-up equipment reminds me some of Anthem’s “barn”, where he stores all manner and sorts of gear, and can come up with a replacement from the barn for most anything....

I continue to be impressed with the resourcefulness of my forum friends!!!!

Keep on keepin’ on, Art!

Rick