Funny, odd, interesting, I had my speakers setup for the longest (years) in a roughly equilateral triangle until I recently got motivated by what I was reading to move my TOnes further apart, even closer to the side walls than I ever thought they should be. And toe them in more, pointing right at my face.
And the sound just got sooooo much better, the imaging really improved. I have never thought my TOnes were imaging monsters, but now they are.
Will wonders never cease?
Have fun with it, happy listening,
God Bless,
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for chiming in. Your experience appears to be similar to mine. I am forming a theory, to wit:

The closer together the speakers are set, the narrower the sound stage becomes and the sound seems to be cramped or "crammed in between the speakers". I have listened extensively with my Fronts about 8 feet apart and the cramped sound effect is what I experienced.

When I moved the speakers as far apart as my room would permit (almost 12 feet apart), the most noticeable change in the sound was the "suspension of the sound in space " in front of me. My attention was no longer drawn to the speakers, but instead to this empty space in front of me.

With the wide speaker spacing, here is what I have heard when I have tried several possible "angle approaches":

1. Angle the speakers such that they align in parallel with the side walls. My experience with this alignment is that the sound source becomes somewhat indeterminate, but there is also a "hole in the middle" effect, which is proportional to the width between the speakers.

2. Angle the speakers to essentially intersect at the PLP. This alignment eliminates the "indeterminate sound source issue" and, in fact replaces that issue with the the sound source location becoming very obvious, especially with recordings which emphasize the "stereo effect".

3. Angle the speakers to intersect at a point in front of the listener. Foe me, this alignment has enhanced the "suspended sound in front of me" effect without narrowing the sound-space. My attention is drawn the music, not to the speakers. There is still left/right separation, but the "stereo effect" is not emphasized. Perhaps this is what others refer to as "imaging".

My speakers remain tilted with a 1.5" height differential from back to front. The sound source in the middle is at ear level when I sit in my PLP. I will leave the tilt in place.

I understand that Sandy's Tips recommends the point of intersection to be just behind the listener. But, I have read that Sandy has also recommended points of intersection in front of the listener in certain situations. Every listening environment is different and every setup is different. I encourage folks to try different arrangements to find the best one for them.

Happy listening and tweaking,

Art

Yes, Bro Art, I am sure every room and setup will have to be a little different.
I keep the TOnes toed in pointing directly at my face because it sounds better, images better focus that way. BUT remember, I have the SC X in the center there filling in that direct full frontal image. So I now have a coherent wall of sound across the room from just past the left TOne, all the way over to just past the right TOne. Which is pretty much, nearly wall to wall, nearly 14 ft across.
When I play a RCA Living STEREO SACD in 3.0 like "Rhapsodies" I have the venerable Stokowski conducting right in front of me with the whole orchestra spread seamlessly across my home theater!!!!!
It is the darnedest thing you ever heard, totally lifelike. I am still in my shorts, did not have to get all dressed up and go to the concert hall, nor travel through time, did not even have to buy a ticket!!!!!
Color me thrilled!!!!

Happy listening,
God Bless,
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Interesting jacket cover.

I have the original monaural RCA LP (LM 2471) and I have the CD Reissue which is the stereo version and contains additional music. Stokowski was a very interesting conductor and music interpreter. Not everybody appreciated his approach.

Stokowski was the conductor who collaborated with Walt Disney to produce Fantasia in 1939.

Stokowski's rendition of the Enescu 2nd Roumanian Rhapsody remains one of my favorite recordings. It is frenetic and fun.

Enjoy,

Art

Hi Wayne, et al:

I have re-positioned my Ones such they are now toed in to point directly to my face - as you have suggested from your experience. I believe that position is slightly better than my previous angle which had them intersect about 2 feet in front of my PLP.

I have also reduced the tilt. The Ones spike sockets are 1/2 inch in depth. Now, I have 1.5 inch long screws in the front of the base and 2.0 inch screws in the back, resulting in a 1/2 inch tilt and a 1 inch lift off the floor for the front of the base. I have other lengths of 1/4 x 20 screws available if I decide to try a different combination.

I think that Sandy''s best setup tip is the one in which he recommends that fronts be as far apart as possible in the typical room. I'll bet the cramped sound stage resulting from close together speakers is significantly more of an issue than reflections, etc. resulting from proximity to side walls.

Consideration of Refs is temporarily on hold.

More later......

Art

Hey Bro Art, sounds like you have your TOnes setup very nearly the way I do now!!!!
Glad you have a good way to move them around, because you seem to have done a good bit of that.
Also glad you are hearing the sonic benefits of your experiments.
When I think about your situation (and of course only you really know your situation) but just joining in with what you are so graciously sharing of your quest, I can see both sides of the TRef question.
On one hand, as the Moderator Dude said, YOU certainly deserve the BEST speakers and could SURELY appreciate what the TRefs could bring to your home in listening enjoyment.
On the other hand, the costs of the TRefs is not small, seems like you are getting much more out of your TOnes now. For a fraction of the cost of the TRefs, you could upgrade other parts of your system to get perhaps 100% out of the TOnes, save money and be quite happy. That is where I am, or at least thinking about being. A new Oppo UDP 205 with the better DAC, OR similar, newer, better, upgraded disc spinner or DAC. I am thinking the front end is the place for me to improve, not the speakers. FOR ME.
I cannot afford the TRefs, will probably never see them here anyway (so maybe some sour grapes there? ha ha). And feel the TOnes are all my smallish HT can hold. And what they (the TOnes) bring is exceptional, wonderful, musical, perfect for me, so any improvements that could be had, for me, would be in the front end signal. My amps are THERE, for me.
IF there were a sub $5,000 R2R MULTICHANNEL DAC that was great on the market, then that is what I would be looking for.
We go along,
All the best my friend,
God Bless,
Wayne