Hey Mark

Just want to expand on what has already been said about positioning. You may have already considered this. If so, please disregard.

Floors and tables react with center speakers similar to how side walls react to main L/R speakers. Direct reflection points on hard or semi-hard surfaces can cause major dialogue problems for a center. If you are not sure use a mirror and look from both yours and your wife's listening positions. If you can ever see the front of the speaker, that is a problem. You will probably only find about two spots, if any. If you find some try covering them with spare blankets or anything that will absorb higher frequencies and rerun whatever setup you use to set speaker levels. I think that you said Audyssey. You should find that that the center needs to be run stronger now and you have a problem or two to solve. Hopefully this will at least help a little.

Best Wishes
Christo

nowhere892 wrote: Hi Rick/T Cobe,

Thanks for your comments. I have tried most of what you suggested. The Marantz sounds similar to the Denon. About 10 months ago I ordered the Emotiva UMC-200 and XPA-5 and borrowed a Marantz SR 7008. I liked the sound of the 7008 better than the Emotiva after tweaking the eq so I sent the Emotiva back. Before doing so, I hooked up the XPA-5 to the 7008 to the pre-outs hoping to hear better clarity but couldn't discern any differences.

My center is raised and on the middle shelf of my tv stand pulled out as far as reasonably possible. For now i will be the only one listening to it so I position myself directly in front. As with most MTM designs there is a drop off of dialogue off-axis but my testing is consistent as far as positioning in front. My crossover is at 80 HZ.

I would say that be removing the center from the stand and putting it on a mock up stand did make a noticeable difference - things sounded better. Perhaps I need to consider getting a dedicated stand in front to let it breathe.

Where do you have your center positioned?

Mark

Hi, Mark

My center is in an entertainment console, on a shelf 54" above floor level and just above the tv. I have it angled down so that it is pointing at ear level in the primary listening position. (I am considering adding some acoustic paneling on the wall in the open back to make sure I'm not getting reflections from there, but the voicing is nice and clear.)

You mentioned that you noticed a difference when you moved it to a mocked up stand. As Anthem pointed out, angling the speaker to point at ear level is important.... was it the new position, or a better angle that made the difference? Something to think about.

You described testing some pretty good gear already (Marantz 7008, Emotiva gear). Did you have the same problem with center channel dialogue clarity even with that great gear? If so, then it sounds more like the issue may be somewhere in the way the center speaker is positioned (angle? some kind of reflections/resonances in the current position in the middle shelf of your tv stand?). Supercenters don't normally need a LOT of room to breathe, but maybe there are some reflections/resonances muddying the sound? Does it make a difference if/when you change the angle of the speaker?

If a new speaker position and stand fixes the problem, that would be a pretty cost effective and quick solution! Or, as T Cobe has said, some acoustic room treatments may also be a way to help with the problem, and clean up the SQ in general for the whole system.

Keep at it! It's worth it to get the sound quality those speakers can deliver.

Rick

Mark,

My SCXL is on an AV stand I made specifically to hold my center channel and electronics below. I like the sound best when it is 24" from the front wall and have some acoustic treatments behind the speaker. I also have the speaker suspended and pointed directly to ear level with Vibrapods and Vibracones. I have my crossover set to 70Hz and have gone as low as 60Hz with good results. Setting the crossover frequencies too high brought my towers into play too much and created some wierd acoustic effects. I also have my level set about 1-2 dB above reference. That little extra really helps the dialogue pop and gives the SCXL the advantage it needs in my system to better match my T1s. Just my experience/preference.

My theater is in a basement and I was getting some room modes up into the midrange frequencies due to exposed floor joists. Insulating the ceiling and covering the joists made a HUGE difference in my sound. I'm still confident you have some acoustic challenges. You've tested some pretty good gear and have great speakers. I can't think of any other reason you would be having such difficulty. What adjustments are you manually making to your EQ? Can you describe more about the room? Is the dialogue issue with all sources or mostly network television? Are Blu-Rays any better? What are you using for speaker cables? If you could post a few pictures, that may really help as well.

Cheers,

T Cobe

I have a much different problem than nowhere892...to much clarity. There are times when the clarity can be literary jaw dropping, but it comes with a price...Sibilance. When listening to dish satellite through the front Triton 2's and SCXXL, sibilance in both the male and female voice can be extremely annoying.
I've tilted the SCXXL up and down. I've positioned her higher up on her dedicated stand, I've dropped the crossover from 80 to 65, turned off the equilizer, and prayed. The biggest improvement came when I went into the processor and turned down the HF on the satellite 12db. This procedure his taken out about 95% of the sibilance. I've only tried this with satellite and not on any other mode, but it seems to work.Tomorrow I want to see if will work with sibilance on Blu-ray...I hope.

Anthem,

Are you just referring the the "s" sounds having hiss? Have you addressed your first reflection points? As I recall from your posted pictures long ago, you have a lot of hard surfaces in your room. I believe I have some sibilance on DirecTV but don't notice it on Blu-Rays or stereo music. Do you have any area rigs and wall treatments in your room?



Sorry if this is too basic and you've already addressed these issues. I thought this may be a good place to start.

Cheers,

T Cobe

T Cobe

I've had GIK Acoustic panels up for about a year now. They've helped tremendously, but can't solve everything, as you know. I've checked other sites on what's being said about sibilance, and it's a problem that many people have, and one that can be hard to get rid of. There seems to be no simple solution, just trial and error. I'll continue playing with my processor setup, and if I can't get satisfaction I call in the BIG BOYS that sold me this stuff.