Hi Cxp,

My setup is similar to yours. I have a corner and wall on the left side, but the primary reflection point on the right side is located at a wide entry way into another room, so, effectively no reflection at all. I experimented with using damping media on the left wall, but couldn't hear much of a difference. I briefly experimented with asymmetric toe in but couldn't hear much of a difference.

I ended up with everything symmetric and the speakers and listening position forming an equilateral triangle. The speakers point to a position a few inches behind my head, although I don't think that is critical either. I found the equilateral triangle arrangement made the biggest difference in improving the imaging.

Because of the wall asymmetry, I also worried about bass levels with my TRefs, and I tested with a frequency sweep to see if the bass levels were the same. Surprisingly, they were to as near as I could measure. So I use equal bass amp settings.

One thing I noticed with my system was that the listening position has be EXACTLY in the middle between the speakers with the distances to the speakers exactly the same. If it isn't, then things get screwed up with image wandering, etc.

You can do this with a tape measure, but I also double check using a mono recording of white noise (you can download this). I loop the white noise, then, sitting at my listening position, I move my head several inches left and right of what I think is center. If I AM centered, i will hear a nearly perfect symmetric drop off on each side. If I'm slightly off center, or if the distance to the speaker is not equal, I hear an asymmetry in the noise pattern when I move my head. I used this method after I had measured and found that there was still an error. When I shifted the couch to center it, the noise pattern became symmetric.

I find that I get terrific imaging using this method. I found this centering test to be more effective than changing the toe in of the speakers. You might give it a try.

Charlie

Thanks for the mono noise suggestion Charlie that should be useful.

I moved away from symmetry due to the extremely small sweet spot.

I am finding with asymmetry that the sweet spot is larger and the speakers disappear naturally. I don’t think this would always work though for everyone. It probably matters how far the one boundary is and other room factors. There is a tight window where the asymmetry works. If either one is toed in too much or too little the stage does strange things.

One thing that is interesting is that I find the assymetry to help balance the tonality of the corner Triton regarding mids/highs.

I will experiment with moving back to equilateral vs asymmetric with my new bass settings since changing the bass also changes the perception of all frequencies above it.

I tried toe in right at me and some variations with the new bass settings. I don’t like it compared to asymmetrical. Sounds like a stereo the left and right speakers are fighting each other for attention.

This asymmetry is really working for me in what I would describe as real sounding and very nice instrument separation. This is the only setup where I can get two acoustic guitars to not blend together into mush. Also with violin track by Max Richter where there are distinct violins on the right and left. Normal toe in they blur, asymmetrical they localize to each other. Also with asymmetry vocals separate from the midbass of the other instruments while symmetrical the vocalist is trapped.

Cxp wrote: I moved away from symmetry due to the extremely small sweet spot.

I am finding with asymmetry that the sweet spot is larger and the speakers disappear naturally.

Cxp, the Triton speakers are fairly narrow and do produce a narrow sweet spot in my room. I think that's the nature of stereo imaging, and the Tritons are excellent at projecting a tight, focused image. My speakers totally disappear except for old 1960s vintage pop stereo recordings where they used left, center, right.

I have found that there is a huge difference in the engineering of stereo recordings. Some have tightly focused instrumental images and others have diffuse images, sometimes smeared over the full width of the soundstage. I have some piano recordings where different notes seem to originate in different places; other piano recordings where the piano is completely stable. That's one reason I went to white noise for position testing. Actually, any mono recording should produce a narrow image dead center in the middle of the two speakers, and this image should be stable over all frequencies. That's the ideal, anyway.

Then there's reality. There are many standing waves (modes) in a room over a wide range of frequencies. Normally, we tend to concern ourselves with the large amplitude bass modes, but there are also many higher modes as well. If you put on a single frequency test tone (at low volume!) and move around, you'll hear all sorts of maxima and minima. As you get higher in frequency (like 1 or 2 kHz or higher), the spacing between these peaks can become quite small. If one of these has a maximum near one ear and a minimum near the other ear, then your perception of direction at that frequency will be skewed, and the stereo image for this frequency will not center. Also, the higher in frequency you go, the more likely it will be that objects in the room will produce reflections that affect the sound field.

If your room has a lot of acoustic reflection (hardwood floors, glass windows, hard furniture surfaces, etc.) then these acoustic reflections can be more troublesome and affect image quality. If this is the case, you might consider adding throw rugs, plush furniture, pillows, things like that to try to soak up some of this energy.

Charlie

Thank you for the comments Charlie.

Big wool area rug in front of speakers and 3/4 inch rug pad underneath.

On the boundary side there is a big window, I keep the blinds 40% open to allow a little diffraction. Down the line I would like to put in sound absorbing grade cellular shades to dampen the window.

The open side is Really Open!

I think the asymmetry helps because there is going to be a huge difference in decay from side to side.

Also although not perfect I do confirm staging on headphones out of my DAC, it’s pretty good at telling for instance when the guitars are hard left/right or not.

I have another track I tested last night where the acoustic guitar is halfway between center and right and with my setup it’s localizing perfectly.

My system now sounds a heck of a lot like my dealers setup. Now it’s effortless and a seamless stage. Vocals sound exceptional now .