WayneWilmeth wrote: Moderator Dude, I hope I never even hinted that the T 2s don't play bass, shoot, you talk about 12 o'clock, I never had them much past 10:30. And for me it was movie bass I needed, not so much music bass, though I was trying for low, sub bass, organ and such, which called for a big subwoofer.

That was the key for me, getting a big sub and setting the processor for DUAL MONO subs, running LFE to the TOnes and T 2s.

Not at all, and your scenario makes sense - the scenario discussed in this topic is the exact opposite (plenty of movie bass and not enough 2ch music bass) and does not make sense and can not really be explained by anything other than due to improper setup or functioning of the bass management system.

Moderator wrote:

WayneWilmeth wrote: Moderator Dude, I hope I never even hinted that the T 2s don't play bass, shoot, you talk about 12 o'clock, I never had them much past 10:30. And for me it was movie bass I needed, not so much music bass, though I was trying for low, sub bass, organ and such, which called for a big subwoofer.

That was the key for me, getting a big sub and setting the processor for DUAL MONO subs, running LFE to the TOnes and T 2s.

Not at all, and your scenario makes sense - the scenario discussed in this topic is the exact opposite (plenty of movie bass and not enough 2ch music bass) and does not make sense and can not really be explained by anything other than due to improper setup or functioning of the bass management system.

Hello Mr. Moderator,

With no intention to disagree with your comment regarding possible issues with RichD's setup or bass management system, yet I believe that is also possible that he is experiencing results similar to my own experience when listening to music versus watching a movie with a multi-channel soundtrack containing an LFE component.

It is my belief that the nature of the low-frequency sounds typically encountered during a movie are such that a direct comparison to musical bass might be misleading. Many, if not most, of the LFE movie sounds I have heard are not at all musical, but rather are rumbles and thumps and bumps which add to the overall aural effect of the scene being viewed. It does not take an expensive sub woofer or a high-quality amplifier to effectively add these LFE sounds.

Likewise, it does not take an expensive sub-woofer or high-quality amplifier to add impressive "thumps" to music bass. However, adding tonal low-frequency sounds which not only can be felt, but also can be heard in their tonal context with the rest of the music is the domain of high-quality sound gear.

The choice of music type can be also be a factor. Adequately reproducing both the thump and tone of an electric bass in a rock or country composition does not necessarily equate to adequately reproducing the low tones of a pipe organ, or the low tones of the double bass section in an orchestral composition. I have a very inexpensive 2.1 traveling sound system which does a very good job of providing the missing bass thump if I am listening to the Dave Brubeck Quartet, but it is not very musical if I am listening to a Bach organ fugue.

When I listen to a Bach organ piece through my Triton Ones which are connected with just speaker wires to my Cambridge 2-channel integrated amplifier, with all controls set to flat and at a reasonable, but not overly-loud volume level, I can certainly hear the low organ pedal tones, but I do not get the same sense of impact and feel as when I sit in our cathedral-style church sanctuary and hear those same tones produced by our rather substantial pipe organ.

However, by adding a bit of "Double Bass" by connecting my Cambridge's preamp output to the Triton Ones' LFE inputs, I can both hear and feel those tones. I have experimented with different settings for the Ones' LFE controls under this "Double Bass" setup and I have found that I need to carefully choose a setting which provides a bit of added "oomph" for the physical feel, without "muddying up" the tone.

I hasten to add that I have found that connecting my Cambridge's variable-level preamp output to the Triton Ones' LFE inputs produces a noticeably different musical result when compared to connecting the Cambridge's standard "Record Line Out" fixed-level output to the Ones.

I have never been able to achieve this balance to my liking unless I add the Double Bass component. Adding a separate sub-woofer (and I have a very good 15 inch Paradigm sub in my music system being driven by the separate "Record Line Out" from my Cambridge) does not add a pleasing "oomph" without also causing too much "muddying up". In fact, one of the major sound improvements for me which resulted from adding the Triton Ones as my main music speakers was the discovery that I could have both bass "oomph" and tone.

Perhaps RichD (and others) are experiencing situations similar to mine

Happy listening,

Art.

Hi Rich,

Did you receive my email?

Art

Hi Art,

Although not mentioned in my most recent post, I did indicate that room acoustics issues, source material, and personal preference, all play a role as well. I did not mean to imply they are not still viable issues one might need to address to achieve the desired results.

Hi Mr. Moderator,

Thanks for your reply. As you know, I am an inveterate experimenter - perhaps more so than many of our GE Gang. I have encouraged others to experiment with their audio gear to find the settings and connections which work the best for them.

You are spot on in mentioning the role that room acoustics, source material, personal listening preferences, and other factors play in the quest for achieving audio nirvana.

My recent posts in another thread about the "agony" I am enduring in trying to decide about upgrading my Fronts to the Triton Refs are a perfect example of the tribulations of this quest. I have no doubt that I would enjoy having the Refs as Fronts, but do I want to consign my outstanding Ones to a secondary role as "Rear Fronts" (a role my Sevens play admirably well now)?

Everything connected with the audio chain plays a role - unfortunately, for me, including budget considerations.

Nothing I have posted is meant in any way to imply that I am less than 100% satisfied with my choice of GE speakers. I listen to music several hours each day and I am absolutely delighted with what I hear.

Best,

Art

This is indeed a complex and multi opinion subject.

IN THEORY, receivers send 2.0 channel full bass from a source to full range speakers. In theory. And LFE also goes directly to full range speakers without sub on.

My own own experience, starting with T2's fed by a NAD T757 using digital processing , is that they just didn't have the bass content I'd heard at the dealers with those same T2's for 2 channel music. Not close. I have come to the conclusion that various receivers, for whatever reasons, whether to protect their own amps or to avoid over taxing speakers, have bass roll off modes built in when no sub is part of the set up. For digital processing mostly. I think both Moderator Dude and Art have pointed this out, that analog directs are more clean, less subject to receiver meddling/rolloff.

So I guess if I were looking to boost bass in 2 channel mode, I'd want to use analog direct if possible to bypass receiver meddling in bass (I'm surprised a Marantz 7702 would meddle with bass in either mode, my Marantz SR 7010 does not), and if that isn't enough, then using digital processing, setting speakers to small, adding LFE connections to powered towers, and using the LFE channel to bypass any bass rolloff from the receiver seems an option. I'll yield to Art here, the guy who's done by far the most experimenting.

All I can add is that, IF the bass is there from the signal from the receiver, the powered Tritons WILL play it, in spades.

Rick