This is definitely one of those areas where manufacturers haven't made it easier on people and one of those areas that you can really screw up what could be a good setup without understanding. To summarize what has mostly been said...

Per standards, (Dolby and DTS basically follow the same standards, including the new high rez and extra channel formats):

1) All channels are full range (n-20kHz) except the LFE channel which is n-120Hz (n is often quoted as 20hz but it can go lower than that)
2) LFE and subwoofer are not the same thing. You can SEND your LFE to a subwoofer... or not.
3) You can also send NON-LFE content to a sub. This is called bass management and is not the same as LFE. Another point of confusion.
4) AVRs SHOULD be designed to use all channels regardless of what your speaker setup is. It can down-mix to 2ch or 5.0 or 5.1 even if the original mix is 7.1

So with that said, where the bass goes depends on your speakers and AVR settings. You can send LFE to a sub or to your main L/R speakers. You cannot send it anywhere else for any AVR I've ever seen ever. You can send bass from the 5 or 7 surround channels to a sub or you can let it go to that channels speakers. Sending it to a sub does not make it LFE. It makes it Right Surround bass sent to a sub.

The only way to send bass to TWO places is if you have an AVR that has one of these "double bass" settings that was mentioned. If you turn this on, you can send bass from the L/R channels to the L/R speakers AND the sub. You cannot send the LFE channel to two places on any AVR I've ever seen. If you say you have a sub, the AVR will send the LFE there (as well as bass from other channels depending on what crossover settings you choose for THOSE CHANNELS in the AVR menu). If you say you do not have a sub, the AVR will send the LFE channel to the L/R speakers so that that channel is not lost.

**Keeping the concept of channels separate from speakers will help understand this better. The sound engineer dictates what sounds are in each channel, your AVR determines what speaker to send the sound to based on your setup**

imahawki wrote: If you say you do not have a sub, the AVR will send the LFE channel to the L/R speakers so that that channel is not lost.

Excellent summary imahawki, one of the best I've seen for this confusing subject, bravo.

Just to be completely accurate, we have found that on some AVR's and computer sound cards that LFE signal IS actually lost in some way when you say "NO" to sub, or degraded in either dynamics or output, or both.

Thank you!!!

And yes, you are right. In fact I firmly believe from my listening that my Onkyo AVR is one that does "attenuate" in some the LFE signal if you send it to the L/R speakers. As other people have speculated I think they're trying to protect people from sending a 100dB 20Hz signal to some mass market speakers because they don't know what they're doing.

Hello All,

Imahawki: Great summary of options for a very confusing issue. I have an Onkyo NR 3009 AVR, which is a 9.2 channel unit (9 speaker channels plus two separate subwoofer outputs.) I have conducted numerous setup experiments with my Onkyo in order to learn how the receiver processes signals under various setup options.

Just to add to your comments: There is a difference between how AVR Receivers handle 2 channel stereo analog inputs and multi-channel digital inputs. Most AVR Receivers will process a 2-channel audio input into a multi-channel output for distribution to a multi-channel speaker setup when a multi-channel listening mode is chosen.

But, most AVR Receivers also offer the option to listen to 2-channel analog inputs in a direct mode with minimal processing. My Onkyo offers this option in two different settings, called "Direct" and Pure Direct". In either of these modes, signals are sent only to the Front Speakers (the Sides and Rear surrounds are not active). There also is no signal present at either of the subwoofer outputs in the Pure or Pure Direct Modes, unless I turn the Analog Direct Bass setting ON. With Analog Direct Bass turned ON, the receiver will send low frequency signals to the subwoofer outputs - the frequency range of these signals is determined by where I have set the Crossover Cutoffs for my speakers in the Speaker Setup configuration. The Analog Direct Bass setting only affects signals when I have chosen either the Pure or Pure Direct listening mode for analog inputs.

If I choose a multi-channel listening mode for my analog signal inputs, the receiver processes the 2-channel signal to create a multi-channel presentation. My Receiver has a number of different multi-channel listening mode options, as will most AVR Receivers. If I choose a multi-channel listening mode, then the receiver determines what bass signals to send to the subwoofer outputs, again depending upon speaker crossover settings. If all of my speakers are set to FULL BAND (called LARGE in some Receivers), then no bass signals are sent to the subwoofer outputs. Different combinations of FULL BAND and Specific Crossover Settings for my speakers will result in bass signals being sent to the subwoofer outputs or no bass signals being sent to the subwoofer outputs.

In these multi-channel listening modes, when the subwoofer outputs are active, I can further enhance the bass by turning the DOUBLE BASS setting ON, which sends Front and Center channel bass signals to both the Front and Center speakers and to the subwoofer outputs.

If the signal input to the Receiver is not analog, but digital, then a substantially different set of "operating rules" apply. The digital signal may or may not have an LFE component, depending upon the signal source. If there is an LFE signal present, that signal is sent to the subwoofer output, unless the Subwoofer Speaker Option has been set to NO in the Speaker Setup. It is possible for the signal input to be digital, but with no LFE component, in which case, there may or may not be an LFE signal present at the subwoofer outputs. When no LFE component is present, the Receiver may or may not generate an LFE component from the signals which are present.

All of these options can easily become very confusing. I agree with your opening comment that AVR Receiver manuals generally do not do a good job of explaining these options and their interactions, leaving the "uninformed user" with little to go on when trying to set a receiver up. That is why I encouraged everyone to experiment with different setup modes with their speaker setup in order to understand how their equipment processes signals.

For deviate2112: If you do not connect cables to your LFE Inputs on your Triton Ones, you will always be dependent upon the content of the signal arriving at your Triton One speaker terminals and the internal crossovers present in your Triton Ones. Therefore, you need to fully understand how your AVR Receiver is processing the different types of signals it is receiving from your signal sources. The best way to achieve this understanding is simply to operate your different signal sources and try out different combinations of settings. The combinations you like best are the best ones for you - there is no "correct setting".

If, after trying all combinations with no cables connected to your Triton Ones LFE inputs, you are not happy with the bass levels present when you listen to music, you might want to consider adding one or both of your other subwoofers into the mix. In my case, I have not found a signal setup I like for music, unless I connect cables from my Onkyo subwoofer outputs to my Triton One LFE inputs. You must listen and decide.

Happy Listening to all,

Art

Read the whole thread, and read Sandy's tips, and half the threads on the board.
Its still confusing, especially for a newbie like myself. I'm using a 7.2.4 with two external subs, setup for mostly multi channel home theater.
Music I set to pure direct and its just the speaker wired Tritons with no subs. Simple

For movies....All other speakers set to small with Crossover at 80, and two external subs.
I look at it as 3 audio streams
- Above 80hz
- Below 80hx
- LFE Channel

Scenario A - Tritons Set to Large, Triton LFE cable = No, AVR Sub Setting = No
- Above 80hz - Goes to Tritons and each respective speaker
- Below 80hx - All frequencies below 80hz from all speakers gets redirected to Tritons (due to large setting)
- LFE Channel - LFE goes to Tritons (due to large setting)

Scenario B - Tritons Set to Small, Triton LFE cable = No, AVR Sub Setting = No
- Who cares, never going to happen

Scenario C - Tritons Set to Large, Triton LFE cable = Yes, AVR Sub Setting = Yes
- Above 80hz - Goes to Tritons and each respective speaker
- Below 80hx - All frequencies below 80hz from all speakers gets redirected to Tritons (large) or does the other speakers audio below 80hz sound go to the AVR sub out channel? or to both the sub-out and all large speakers?
- LFE Channel - LFE goes to both Tritons and Subs

Scenario D (edited as mistakenly was C prior) - Tritons Set to Large, Triton LFE cable = No, AVR Sub Setting = Yes
- Above 80hz - Goes to Tritons and each respective speaker
- Below 80hx - All frequencies below 80hz from all speakers gets redirected to Tritons (large) or does the other speakers audio below 80hz sound go to the AVR sub out channel? or to both the sub-out and all large speakers?
- LFE Channel - LFE goes to Subs (or does LFE go to both Subs and all large speakers?)

So with the above scenarios, C seems most likely as a "best practice" from reading the threads and posts. Where I'm confused is where does the center and surround speakers audio below 80hz go when the mains are set to Large AND there are external subs ?

Jarery wrote: Scenario C - Tritons Set to Large, Triton LFE cable = No, AVR Sub Setting = Yes
- Above 80hz - Goes to Tritons and each respective speaker
- Below 80hz - All frequencies below 80hz from all speakers gets redirected to Tritons (large) or does the other speakers audio below 80hz sound go to the AVR sub out channel? or to both the sub-out and all large speakers?
- LFE Channel - LFE goes to Subs (or does LFE go to both Subs and all large speakers?)

So with the above scenarios, C seems most likely as a "best practice" from reading the threads and posts. Where I'm confused is where does the center and surround speakers audio below 80hz go when the mains are set to Large AND there are external subs ?

Yikes, that does sound confusing

OK, here's a simple answer to the main question at the end: In that scenario C, all the bass below the crossover on small setting channels goes to the Large Main L/R speakers. Only LFE goes to your outboard subs (only). This is a good setup for movies and definitely one of the best practice setups. Running LFE to Tritons is also a best-practice, but your setup will give the Tritons (and therefore your whole theater) more dynamic range by eliminating LFE from the Triton subwoofers entirely.

Hope this helps, beware of 100 other setup suggestions ... unless you like to experiment.