Art,

The benefit for me with my settings as such is balanced bass when not using the LFE and listening in 2 channel stereo for music. The speaker level inputs do not provide as much gain so I need to turn up the gain on the T1s to get it where I enjoy it. This level is still less bass than I prefer in multi-channel listening. Additionally, I prefer 2.0 music if mixed that way and don't like my processor trying to send bass through the LFE. Just my preference.

In multi-channel listening, using the LFE provides exceptional bass but with the gain turned up, I need to attenuate the output by turning down the LFE output in the receiver. It is still around 80 dB with the test tone versus 75 but I like to run a little hot.

Running this set-up allows me to listen to both music in 2.0 and multi-channel recordings with just the right amount of bass without having to touch the gain knob or changing levels in my Integra. It provides me the best of both worlds, in my opinion. I hope this explanation makes sense.

Cheers,

T Cobe

Hi T. Cobe,

Yes, your explanation makes sense, but I do have a couple of questions. Since you are using an Integra, I presume you have most, if not all, the same settings options that I have with my Onkyo. My questions are:

1. Are you using the Direct Subwoofer ON/OFF feature in your Integra 70.2? (See Page 60 in your Integra 70.2 Manual)

2. If you are listening to music in either the Direct or Pure Direct Modes, do you have the Direct Subwoofer Setting turned ON or OFF?

3. If you're not listening in either Direct or Pure Direct Modes, then what do you mean by 2.0 Listening?

Best,

Art

Art,

I have the subwoofer output set to off for direct mode. This means the T1s are creating all of the bass with the speaker level inputs. By 2.0, I mean 2 channel stereo with no LFE sub output. Hope this gets to the root of your questions. I find LFE with music to be too much bass. Different strokes for different folks...

Cheers,

T Cobe

T. Cobe,

I understand your arrangement. Here's some info for you to consider. After running some tests, I believe the following to be correct:

1. Adjusting the sub levels in the Onkyo/Integra Speaker Setup menu only impacts the LFE signal levels when LFE signals are present. This means that, if the Subwoofer Direct option is turned ON, changing the sub levels in the Speaker Setup menu will not affect the level of "Analog Bass" sound present when Subwoofer is turned ON.

2. With Subwoofer Direct turned ON, there is considerably more analog bass present when music is played in the Direct Mode. In my case, I have the Triton One LFE level set to the third dot (approximately 9:00 o'clock position) to balance the analog audio bass. I have Double Bass turned OFF, so I don't believe that I am adding speaker level bass to the sub section bass.

3. At the 9:00 o'clock setting, when I watch a movie I have plenty of LFE bass present with the sub level setting at 0 DB in my Onkyo.

For me, bass is just not deep and rich enough when I turn the Subwoofer Direct setting to OFF - even with the Tritons set to Full Range and the Triton LFE level control set to two dots beyond the 12:00 o'clock position. (I am not using any other subs in my setup during this set of tests). An advantage to being able to have rich analog bass at the 9:00 o'clock Triton One setting is that I do not have to attenuate the LFE settings in the Onkyo. Perhaps another advantage might be less stress on the Triton sub section with the lower 9:00 o'clock setting.

I have emailed Onkyo, asking them to provide more detail about what is happening inside the receiver when Subwoofer Direct is ON versus when it is OFF. I would like to know how the receiver separates the analog bass and sends it down the LFE cable when Subwoofer Direct is ON and what impact, if any, the LFE cutoff filter setting has on the analog bass when Subwoofer Direct is turned ON. So far, I have not received a response from Onkyo, even after sending two emails.

As we all have been saying, different strokes for different folks...

Best,

Art

Art,

I have a few theories of what my Integra is sending to my speakers based on my crossover settings. If I have the L/R Main set to full and the sub-woofer to "Yes", my guess is that I would be feeding them double bass for 2 channel stereo. They would be receiving full frequency input through the speaker level inputs and frequencies below wherever I have my sub-woofer crossover set (which is at 100 Hz in my system). As the subs do present bass in Direct mode in 2 channel playback with the sub-woofer set to "yes", I believe any sub level adjustments in the receiver will also impact playback levels.

Having the sub gain dial turned up to the 13:00 position provides me with enough bass for music playback, but certainly, everyone's preferences vary. As to whether this will cause additional strain on the T1 amp, I cannot answer. My guess is that having the gain just over 50% should be "safe" and not considered misuse for warranty purposes. I may try your settings to see if they are preferable. I'm always willing to try new settings in an attempt to squeeze that extra bit of performance out of my system. I also just ordered the Emotiva XPA-5, which I believe will add a little more power to my bottom end. It may even clean up some of my issues with the Integra.

As always, Art, thank you for your thoughtful analysis and recommendations. I look forward to hearing what Onkyo has to say in response to your e-mail. Happy listening!

Cheers,

T Cobe

T. Cobe,

I would really like to know how the Integra/Onkyo receivers are processing bass signals based upon settings. In addition to the "Direct Analog Subwoofer" setting we have been discussing, there is also a "Double Bass" setting in the receivers. With this setting at OFF, the receiver should not be sending speaker-level bass signals simultaneously down the LFE cables. But, it may also be possible that the "Double Bass" setting only affects LFE signals and not "analog bass" signals.

I agree that there should be no impact on performance or safety in the Triton Ones at bass level control settings of 9"00. 12:00, or 2:00. I just tossed the idea out for consideration.

With regard to the sub level adjustments in the Speaker Setup menu: I could not hear any difference in "analog bass" level between a setting of 0 DB and a setting of -8 DB. Therefore, I concluded that the sub level adjustment only affected LFE signals.

Unless Onkyo responds to my email inquiry, I know of no other way to obtain technical information related to how the Integra/Onkyo receivers are processing bass and other signals as various setup options and connections are employed. Perhaps it just doesn't matter because, at the end of the day, we are all left with finding the setup most pleasing to each of us. However, knowing what is actually happening inside the electronics would be of great benefit - at least to me.

I am going to think further about the options available with my Triton Ones and my Onkyo. I might decide to undertake a more controlled and detailed analysis in an effort to fully understand how different setup options affect sound. If I do so, I will publish the results in a new post in the GE Forum.

Best,

Art