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A/B Compaired One & Ref but no migration path!
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PR
Posted
7 years 3 months ago
About a year ago, I did an A/B comparison of the Triton Two and One at a dealer. I bought a pair of One's as I thought them the best value for use in my stereo system. Reading an ad for the Reference in Stereophile, I made an appointment with a dealer to likewise A/B test the the One's and Ref's.
The Ref's had better staging and cleaner more authoritative bass. However, I found the Ref's to be darker and have a less forward treble. There were only about 50 hours on the Ref's so they may open up with additional burn-in. But overall, the Ref's were a better speaker than my One's.
I would like to upgrade my year-old One's to Ref's but here's the rub; there is no viable upgrade path from an economic perspective because it would cost me $12,000 to upgrade! Let me explain.
Look at the #s for my scenario:
One cost with 7% Florida sales tax: $5,000 + $350 = $5350 to purchase.
Ref cost with 7% Florida sales tax: $8,500 + $595 = $9,095 to purchase.
The dealer offered me a $2,500 trade in allowance toward the purchase of the Ref's.
Total cost so far for both is $14,445. With the $2,500 trade in allowance at the dealer on the One, the total cost to upgrade from a One to a Ref is $11,945. (Extra costs of $945 sales tax and $2,500 depreciation factored into net purchase price.)
So it would cost about $12,000 for an existing One owner to upgrade to the Ref by trading in his One's at the dealer. I do not see this happening a lot.
I think this will stymie sales of the Ref; only new customers would consider a Ref purchase. A new customer can buy a Ref for $9,095 (including sales tax.) A loyal, Triton One owning, existing customer would have to spend $11,945 (including sales tax and trade in depreciation) to own those same pair of Ref's.
I decided to keep my One's as they are a great value and are a great match for my system. I just could not justify spending $12,000 total on upgrading to the Ref's.
I think other existing Triton owners will come to the same conclusion. Love the Ref's but can't economically justify a net cost of $12,000 for them.
Does GoldenEar have a migration plan for existing Triton owners?
The Ref's had better staging and cleaner more authoritative bass. However, I found the Ref's to be darker and have a less forward treble. There were only about 50 hours on the Ref's so they may open up with additional burn-in. But overall, the Ref's were a better speaker than my One's.
I would like to upgrade my year-old One's to Ref's but here's the rub; there is no viable upgrade path from an economic perspective because it would cost me $12,000 to upgrade! Let me explain.
Look at the #s for my scenario:
One cost with 7% Florida sales tax: $5,000 + $350 = $5350 to purchase.
Ref cost with 7% Florida sales tax: $8,500 + $595 = $9,095 to purchase.
The dealer offered me a $2,500 trade in allowance toward the purchase of the Ref's.
Total cost so far for both is $14,445. With the $2,500 trade in allowance at the dealer on the One, the total cost to upgrade from a One to a Ref is $11,945. (Extra costs of $945 sales tax and $2,500 depreciation factored into net purchase price.)
So it would cost about $12,000 for an existing One owner to upgrade to the Ref by trading in his One's at the dealer. I do not see this happening a lot.
I think this will stymie sales of the Ref; only new customers would consider a Ref purchase. A new customer can buy a Ref for $9,095 (including sales tax.) A loyal, Triton One owning, existing customer would have to spend $11,945 (including sales tax and trade in depreciation) to own those same pair of Ref's.
I decided to keep my One's as they are a great value and are a great match for my system. I just could not justify spending $12,000 total on upgrading to the Ref's.
I think other existing Triton owners will come to the same conclusion. Love the Ref's but can't economically justify a net cost of $12,000 for them.
Does GoldenEar have a migration plan for existing Triton owners?
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth
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Timecop
Posted
7 years 3 months ago
That's... not how buying up works. Your 1 year old speakers are no longer worth full price +tax. All you need to do is sell them locally and use said proceeds to purchase the TREF. If you continually upgrade to the latest and greatest, you will lose money in the process. I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you don't NEED the TREFs, rather you just want them. I understand that some dealers offer a trade-in program, but it's really up to their discretion what they'll pay (in my area, they offer more than you quoted).
Triton Two front L/R
SuperSat 50c center
Triton Seven surround L/R
SuperSat 50 surround rear L/R
AVR Arcam AVR-21
Amp Marantz mm7025
Velodyne optimum 10” sealed, back left corner
SuperSub X front-right corner
SuperSat 50c center
Triton Seven surround L/R
SuperSat 50 surround rear L/R
AVR Arcam AVR-21
Amp Marantz mm7025
Velodyne optimum 10” sealed, back left corner
SuperSub X front-right corner
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WayneWilmeth
Posted
7 years 3 months ago
PR, welcome here and thanks for your comments.
I cannot afford the References. They are too big for my room too, which helps me soften that blow a little too.
There is no migration path. You could probably do a little better if you sold your Ones yourself, that is what a lot of the guys are doing.
BUT here is the good news, our Triton Ones are awesome speakers in their own right and I, for one, feel very blessed to have them!!!!
Here is a fact of life I have learned to live with: Somebody out there has a better music system than I do, better amps, speakers, everything. Quite a few somebodies in fact. That part of life sorta sucks. BUT I have a better music system than most people. By a LONG WAYS. Wish everybody in the world could have one as good as mine. But life sucks in that most don't.
I am happy with what I have.
Happy listening, wish this helps,
God Bless,
Wayne
I cannot afford the References. They are too big for my room too, which helps me soften that blow a little too.
There is no migration path. You could probably do a little better if you sold your Ones yourself, that is what a lot of the guys are doing.
BUT here is the good news, our Triton Ones are awesome speakers in their own right and I, for one, feel very blessed to have them!!!!
Here is a fact of life I have learned to live with: Somebody out there has a better music system than I do, better amps, speakers, everything. Quite a few somebodies in fact. That part of life sorta sucks. BUT I have a better music system than most people. By a LONG WAYS. Wish everybody in the world could have one as good as mine. But life sucks in that most don't.
I am happy with what I have.
Happy listening, wish this helps,
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
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Sonics
Posted
7 years 3 months ago
The sales tax is easily overlooked but is a big part of the calculus on big ticket items rivaling the cost of a nice used car. Intuitively, you'd first think if you bought a pre-owned pair of T1s at, say, $4,500 that you had saved $500. But this is of course incorrect. You would have actually saved the additional amount of sales tax you would have paid had the purchase been made from a dealer; $350 in this example. Bringing the actual total savings to $850 of buying pre-owned instead of new; even if paying almost full list price.
So hopefully if pre-owned buyers will factor sales tax into the cost savings, it might help everyone out. It would make the initial buyer more likely to make the purchase in the first place if he knows he can sell it on the after-market at 90% because the real savings for his potential buyers is in tax savings. Buyers of big ticket pre-owned geer could still pocket about a grand and get geer they otherwise would have been able to afford. Finally, dealers would benefit as the liquidity on the after-market lets them sell the lattest and greatest gizmo to existing customers.
In fact! Given all this win-win-win, would it behoove GE or GE dealers to act as facilitators? Maybe dealing in pre-owned geer directly; maybe with a more generous trade in allowance. Or simply posting a Want/Selling list at the store and on its individual web site? The pre-owned transactions would not be a direct profit center per se. It would simply serve as a means to an end of allowing their existing customer base to fairly painlessly trade up. As a company and a dealer, they should both want their existing customers constantly upgrading their geer. And new customers that maybe can't afford a given price-point still joining the customer base with pre-owned geer and becoming potential future upgraders; and greasing the skids for selling new geer to existing customers.
Additionally, this would help GE maintain sales volumes during the time period right before a new product launch. It would help mitigate the "I'll not make a purchase now because I'll wait a few months to audition the exciting new flagship product" mindset. Dealers could say, "Nah, just get the existing flagship to enjoy for a few months and potentially trade up later - because we make trading up so fast, fun, easy, and affordable!" Existing sales remain strong and the new flagship flys off the shelves when it arrives as new and existing customers all get the shiny new marble.
An illiquid after-market with low trade in values and difficulty in buyer/seller matching engenders a lose-lose-lose: lost sales, a smaller customer base, and less satisfied customers.
So hopefully if pre-owned buyers will factor sales tax into the cost savings, it might help everyone out. It would make the initial buyer more likely to make the purchase in the first place if he knows he can sell it on the after-market at 90% because the real savings for his potential buyers is in tax savings. Buyers of big ticket pre-owned geer could still pocket about a grand and get geer they otherwise would have been able to afford. Finally, dealers would benefit as the liquidity on the after-market lets them sell the lattest and greatest gizmo to existing customers.
In fact! Given all this win-win-win, would it behoove GE or GE dealers to act as facilitators? Maybe dealing in pre-owned geer directly; maybe with a more generous trade in allowance. Or simply posting a Want/Selling list at the store and on its individual web site? The pre-owned transactions would not be a direct profit center per se. It would simply serve as a means to an end of allowing their existing customer base to fairly painlessly trade up. As a company and a dealer, they should both want their existing customers constantly upgrading their geer. And new customers that maybe can't afford a given price-point still joining the customer base with pre-owned geer and becoming potential future upgraders; and greasing the skids for selling new geer to existing customers.
Additionally, this would help GE maintain sales volumes during the time period right before a new product launch. It would help mitigate the "I'll not make a purchase now because I'll wait a few months to audition the exciting new flagship product" mindset. Dealers could say, "Nah, just get the existing flagship to enjoy for a few months and potentially trade up later - because we make trading up so fast, fun, easy, and affordable!" Existing sales remain strong and the new flagship flys off the shelves when it arrives as new and existing customers all get the shiny new marble.
An illiquid after-market with low trade in values and difficulty in buyer/seller matching engenders a lose-lose-lose: lost sales, a smaller customer base, and less satisfied customers.
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Moderator
Posted
7 years 3 months ago
Most of our dealers are offering pretty generous trade-in allowance for Triton Ones against a new pair of T Refs. If not in your area, the used market seems to be strong and the value seems to hold up pretty well relative to other brands and products. If you want to talk lost value, try selling a used projector.
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anthem
Posted
7 years 3 months ago
PR
You're over thinking the situation. I went through this same scenario last week - traded in the T2's for TR'S. I came out smelling like a rose.
Your dealer is kinda stingy on his T1 upgrade offer. I'll bet you could do better with a private sale - they are easily worth 3-4k.
Your dealer won't give you a discount on the TR'S? Say 10%?
$8500.00 - $4000.00 = $4500.00 plus tax
Sounds much better than $12k
If I bought a new car today and drove it for a year, do you think I could what I paid for it? Crap No!
You're over thinking the situation. I went through this same scenario last week - traded in the T2's for TR'S. I came out smelling like a rose.
Your dealer is kinda stingy on his T1 upgrade offer. I'll bet you could do better with a private sale - they are easily worth 3-4k.
Your dealer won't give you a discount on the TR'S? Say 10%?
$8500.00 - $4000.00 = $4500.00 plus tax
Sounds much better than $12k
If I bought a new car today and drove it for a year, do you think I could what I paid for it? Crap No!
D-Sonic m3a-600m Mono > McIntosh MC152 > Primaluna ProLogue Premium Preamp > Oppo UDP205 > Decware ZLC > Triton Reference > Isoacoustics Gaia 2 > Canare 4S11 Speaker Cables > Audience Forte 3, Anticable L3 & Shunyata Venom PC's
Every great performance deserves an Audience!
Every great performance deserves an Audience!
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