PR wrote: .....

Look at the #s for my scenario:

One cost with 7% Florida sales tax: $5,000 + $350 = $5350 to purchase.

Ref cost with 7% Florida sales tax: $8,500 + $595 = $9,095 to purchase.....

Two things off the top of my head that can greatly influence the MSRP and substantially lower the numbers you have quoted. One is *cash* and the other is *negotiation*.

The sales tax is easily overlooked but is a big part of the calculus on big ticket items rivaling the cost of a nice used car. Intuitively, you'd first think if you bought a pre-owned pair of T1s at, say, $4,500 that you had saved $500. But this is of course incorrect. You would have actually saved the additional amount of sales tax you would have paid had the purchase been made from a dealer; $350 in this example. Bringing the actual total savings to $850 of buying pre-owned instead of new; even if paying almost full list price.

So hopefully if pre-owned buyers will factor sales tax into the cost savings, it might help everyone out. It would make the initial buyer more likely to make the purchase in the first place if he knows he can sell it on the after-market at 90% because the real savings for his potential buyers is in tax savings. Buyers of big ticket pre-owned geer could still pocket about a grand and get geer they otherwise would have been able to afford. Finally, dealers would benefit as the liquidity on the after-market lets them sell the lattest and greatest gizmo to existing customers.

In fact! Given all this win-win-win, would it behoove GE or GE dealers to act as facilitators? Maybe dealing in pre-owned geer directly; maybe with a more generous trade in allowance. Or simply posting a Want/Selling list at the store and on its individual web site? The pre-owned transactions would not be a direct profit center per se. It would simply serve as a means to an end of allowing their existing customer base to fairly painlessly trade up. As a company and a dealer, they should both want their existing customers constantly upgrading their geer. And new customers that maybe can't afford a given price-point still joining the customer base with pre-owned geer and becoming potential future upgraders; and greasing the skids for selling new geer to existing customers.

Additionally, this would help GE maintain sales volumes during the time period right before a new product launch. It would help mitigate the "I'll not make a purchase now because I'll wait a few months to audition the exciting new flagship product" mindset. Dealers could say, "Nah, just get the existing flagship to enjoy for a few months and potentially trade up later - because we make trading up so fast, fun, easy, and affordable!" Existing sales remain strong and the new flagship flys off the shelves when it arrives as new and existing customers all get the shiny new marble.

An illiquid after-market with low trade in values and difficulty in buyer/seller matching engenders a lose-lose-lose: lost sales, a smaller customer base, and less satisfied customers.

anthem wrote: PR
You're over thinking the situation. I went through this same scenario last week - traded in the T2's for TR'S. I came out smelling like a rose.
Your dealer is kinda stingy on his T1 upgrade offer. I'll bet you could do better with a private sale - they are easily worth 3-4k.
Your dealer won't give you a discount on the TR'S? Say 10%?

$8500.00 - $4000.00 = $4500.00 plus tax
Sounds much better than $12k

If I bought a new car today and drove it for a year, do you think I could what I paid for it? Crap No!

$4500+tax is what my dealer just offered for trade in of my two year old Ones. I pick up the Refs on Saturday!

DGA wrote: $4500+tax is what my dealer just offered for trade in of my two year old Ones. I pick up the Refs on Saturday!

In fairness to the OP, your dealers offer is likely contingent upon your purchasing the Reference at a particular price point. Also, different dealers "deal" differently.

Sonics wrote: The sales tax is easily overlooked but is a big part of the calculus on big ticket items rivaling the cost of a nice used car. Intuitively, you'd first think if you bought a pre-owned pair of T1s at, say, $4,500 that you had saved $500. But this is of course incorrect. You would have actually saved the additional amount of sales tax you would have paid had the purchase been made from a dealer; $350 in this example. Bringing the actual total savings to $850 of buying pre-owned instead of new; even if paying almost full list price.

So hopefully if pre-owned buyers will factor sales tax into the cost savings, it might help everyone out. It would make the initial buyer more likely to make the purchase in the first place if he knows he can sell it on the after-market at 90% because the real savings for his potential buyers is in tax savings. Buyers of big ticket pre-owned geer could still pocket about a grand and get geer they otherwise would have been able to afford. Finally, dealers would benefit as the liquidity on the after-market lets them sell the lattest and greatest gizmo to existing customers.

In fact! Given all this win-win-win, would it behoove GE or GE dealers to act as facilitators? Maybe dealing in pre-owned geer directly; maybe with a more generous trade in allowance. Or simply posting a Want/Selling list at the store and on its individual web site? The pre-owned transactions would not be a direct profit center per se. It would simply serve as a means to an end of allowing their existing customer base to fairly painlessly trade up. As a company and a dealer, they should both want their existing customers constantly upgrading their geer. And new customers that maybe can't afford a given price-point still joining the customer base with pre-owned geer and becoming potential future upgraders; and greasing the skids for selling new geer to existing customers.

Additionally, this would help GE maintain sales volumes during the time period right before a new product launch. It would help mitigate the "I'll not make a purchase now because I'll wait a few months to audition the exciting new flagship product" mindset. Dealers could say, "Nah, just get the existing flagship to enjoy for a few months and potentially trade up later - because we make trading up so fast, fun, easy, and affordable!" Existing sales remain strong and the new flagship flys off the shelves when it arrives as new and existing customers all get the shiny new marble.

An illiquid after-market with low trade in values and difficulty in buyer/seller matching engenders a lose-lose-lose: lost sales, a smaller customer base, and less satisfied customers.

There is a Colorado dealer who has a limited returns/trade-up/used gear program - and by "limited" I mean, must come with all original packaging, documentation & cannot be more than one year old. Even then, a lot of their used items sell at a severe discount while eating up valuable space in the store. Selling gear privately almost always nets more $$$, so this ends up being a convenience for the consumer, and a hassle for the dealer.

I applaud organizations that offer trade-up programs, but I don't know that they have a huge incentive to do so.