Thanks, but not that important.

I'm uniquely able to respond to your question as I owned Avantegard Uno's, then Duo's and finally built my own horn system-similar to what you heard though I used a custom built PPSL subs for low frequencies, and constant directivity horns for highs (photo has baby CD tweeter horn removed). I later bought T1's and still have the horn system. Horns are super efficient so transient response is great. But they tend to have small sweet spots, like with the Avantegards, you move your head 1/4" and the soundstage collapses. So I went with CD horns which sound good across the entire room-but never give you that amazing soundstage. IMO, the triton tweater is faster than a horn, and I have not heard any other speaker produce the same soundstage along with great dynamics, frequency response etc. Ribbons are as good for the high end (Apogee), but none did it all like the T1's. I don't even have the R version, and frankly, can't imagine it being that much better to justify the cost, though I'd probably buy a pair if I found a great used price-but doesn't appear that many people sell them!

I can't help but believe that, even with the directivity of horns, he doesn't have 1st and 2nd reflection acoustic treatments on the side walls-yes, lots of bags and junk on the shelves so maybe they scatter those reflections, but having lots of horn experience, I still think the T1's with proper acoustical room treatments is the absolute best sound I've ever experienced short of $100k plus speakers. I guess I still come down to cost/benefit. I also don't understand why you would have so much amplification for a 96db efficient system-he's likely using 2watts. I also agree that, even with electronic crossovers, you have to match horns and xovers very carefully to not have issues with phase. I also expect he uses a lot of EQ, which is fine, but with high efficiency, you also hear the electronics. I prefer to treat the room and avoid extra electronics.

@lamia1

I appreciate your candid feedback. I can only add that (a) I've forwarded your comments to the owner of the horn system I referenced herein this thread, (b) I can extend an invitation to you or anyone else to listen for yourself and then formulate yet another opinion and (c) if you're as enthusiastic about the T1's as much you state then you owe it to yourself to further check-out the T Refs

lamia1 wrote: I don't even have the R version, and frankly, can't imagine it being that much better to justify the cost, though I'd probably buy a pair if I found a great used price-but doesn't appear that many people sell them!

lamia1,

Thanks for your comments. You've had a great deal more experience with this than I have, and I think you've made some excellent points.

On the quote above, yes there's a reason you don't see many used ones on the market. I have TRefs, and they are so amazingly transparent that I've been able to hear very subtle differences in components. They are definitely not the weak link in the chain, and I have no plans to move up from them. I think the cost to get significantly better would be prohibitive.

Time alignment of the wavefronts from multiple-driver speaker systems is very important, and horns must be dealt with carefully in that regard. That is a very long path, especially for something folded up like a Khorn. And, yes, noise may be more of a problem when you have hypersensitive speakers. As would getting the appropriate volume level from preamps, etc.

The imaging thing fascinates me lately. I believe that driver diameter plays an important role in image precision, but those boundary reflections, plus whatever comb filtering effects are happening make for a very complex situation. I do not have high quality first reflection point treatments in my room, but I do sit mostly nearfield, and I use a DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 to handle the standing waves. I do wonder about those reflections though.

Thanks again for an interesting discussion!

Charlie

Hi Charlie,
IF there is one thing I've learned is that most people who keep upgrading components other than their speakers in the hope for more would find that proper acoustic treatment would get them far more bang for buck, much like speakers vs. amps. I always thought eq was the way to go till I spent the time to learn about room treatments and to use REW (free software) to measure the room. In fact, all REW did was confirm what my ears told me, so I really didn't need it. But was a dramatic improvement in the soundstage when at least first reflections were removed from the walls and ceiling using DIY panels. I have also always been a Quad, then surround sound guy till I heard what these 2 spkers did with those panels. The sound actually comes from the sides as well as across the front and has clear depth and placement with good recordings. I've had a bunch of people over to listen and in each case they thought the bass traps behind them were speakers, it's that apparent. No doubt that custom built horn system sounds good, but the cost to attain it doesn't likely justify it any more than those folks who pay for Wilson, Sonus Faber etc. I listened to $300k speakers last month and the manufacturers rep asked me what I thought and I told him- maybe these sound good in a great room, but they sound horrible here with two glass walls. He admitted the same- just stupid to demo like that in an open house trying to impress all the guys who would upgrade yet again. Even when I demo'd the T1's, they didn't have them the same distance from the chair nor towed in the same. I often wish I could sell GE speakers but there isn't even a local dealer here in Phoenix anymore. Anyway, enjoy-if you don't feel anything is missing, no point in chasing better sound.