For "The Gang" to consider:

My Onkyo NR 3009 provides two bass-enhancement options -- Analog Direct Bass On/Off for use in either the Direct or Pure Direct Modes and Double Bass On/Off for use with other audio listening modes. In each case, the Onkyo Manual simply states that, with these options turned ON, bass signals are sent to the sub woofer outputs.

However, the Onkyo manual does not explain how these bass signals are derived, nor does the manual give any details regarding the frequency range of the bass signals being sent to the sub woofer outputs.

My experience with using both of these bass features is that the bass sounds emanating from my Triton Ones is definitely enhanced with these settings turned ON -- enhanced to the extent that I can turn the Triton Ones LFE gain control down to minimum or near-minimum settings and still have ample bass. Without these enhancement features being active, I must turn the Triton Ones LFE gain control to somewhere between the 12:00 mid-position and 3/4 full (3:00 position) to achieve satisfactory bass.

Now, here are the questions and thoughts for comments:

1. GE always recommends against the use of these bass enhancement features on the basis of adding too much bass or "doubling the bass". But, I submit that, when I use these features and I turned the Triton Ones LFE gain control down to minimum or near-minimum settings, in reality I am not causing much "doubling of the bass" because relatively little bass is coming from the speakers that originates from the bass signals present on the speaker lines. Most of the bass I am hearing is coming down the LFE input lines connected to the Onkyo sub-woofer outputs.

2. But, what are these bass signals? Onkyo does not specify their character. With all speakers set to "Full Range" and with the LFE Filter set to "Bypass", I would presume that a full range of bass signals are being sent to the Onkyo Sub-Woofer Outputs when I use these enhancement features.

3. On the other hand, if I were to set the speakers to frequency cutoff values other than Full Range, and/or if I were to set the LFE cutoff frequency to other than Bypass, then the frequency range of the bass signals being sent both to the Triton Ones speaker inputs and to their LFE inputs will change accordingly.

It seems to me that this subject of bass management could use some additional considerations -- especially depending upon the equipment being used to drive the Triton Ones. I plan to conduct a little experiment by alternately connecting and disconnecting the Triton Ones speaker lines and the LFE input lines, then, at various settings within my Onkyo, using test tones to hear how these setup options affect the bass response. I'll keep notes and report the results as an update to this thread.

Meanwhile, Gang -- chime in as you feel the urge.

Update: I have now completed an extensive experiment, using just my Onkyo NR 3009 and my Triton Ones. The results are definitive so far as I am concerned. However, all results are empirical because I used my two ears as calibrated listening devices. However, I am satisfied with the results. I have attached a Word Document to provide the gory details for anyone who might be interested. My conclusions are listed at the end of the document.

My tests and my results are clearly related and applicable to my situation and gear. However, I believe that other folks might benefit from conducting their own experiments, based upon their gear and listening preferences.

Happy listening to all,

Art

Using a "Quick Reply" to highlight that I have updated this post yesterday with the results of my experiments, including adding an attachment with details.

Hey, Art

I love experimenting, and admire others who push the boundaries!

Thus far, I find the crossovers and DSP in the powered Tritons seem to present a smoother SQ as "large" than I can find with the Tritons set as "small" and using crossovers to direct LFE back. Maybe it depends on the gear being used/listener preference etc. But keep it up! This is how we all learn and progress.

Rick

Hi Rick,

I, too, prefer the "Full Band" setting for my Triton Ones. But, I also am enjoying using "Double Bass" to simultaneously direct lower frequencies to the Ones LFE Inputs. During my experiments, I heard a distinct difference between the bass sounds when using just the speaker lines, as compared to using both the speaker lines and the LFE inputs. With just the speaker lines, the bass was tuneful, but thin and without much punch. With just the LFE inputs, the bass was much less tuneful, but much richer and deeper with more punch. So, I am using both "Full Band" and "Double Bass" settings to get both tuneful and deep, punchy bass. For me, the trick is to find the balance point. So far, I have elected to not use the EQ in my Onkyo. I am using just the Triton Ones' LFE gain control to balance the bass levels.

As a result of conducting the experiments, I gained a better understanding of how the sounds are affected by the different setup options. I published the data in this forum to encourage others to experiment - not to suggest that my conclusions and preferences should apply to anyone else.

Thanks for your comments.

Art

Hey, Art

I view your efforts as being a true pioneer in the world of bass management. My own experience is, first, with an NAD T757 AVR, and it definitely benefited from added bass, which I provided with LFE connections. BUT it also lacked full range bass, with no LFE in 2 channel or 5.0 formats. I know this is some controversial, but it is still my belief that SOME receivers do also roll off full range bass to channels set as full range, and I still believe the NAD T757 does this (adding an NAD amp and running the fronts as pre outs to the amps helped this a lot).

My experience with the Marantz SR 7010 AVR I now have is very different. That beast does NOT shy away from sending full bass to any channel when the Tritons are set as large! Bass sent to the T2 surrounds/large is BETTER than the bass the NAD sent to T2's when they were fronts, through the NAD amp. Go figure.

All I know is, SO much depends on the gear feeding the GEt's. I really admire the professional way you have done your experiments! If I were still playing through the NAD AVR, I'd want to try some of your settings. The Marantz, for whatever reason, seems to just send lots of bass, any setting, to full range/large speakers, no help needed. Again, go figure.

As you've said, know your gear. Keep it up, Art. Your system is high on the list of great systems I'd love to hear personally if I ever figured a way to "tour" these great systems represented on this forum!

Happy listening!

Rick

Hi Rick,

I would be very surprised if different equipment did not have different performance. I own several older Sony Receivers and an older Denon. None of them have the same features as my Onkyo. For example, all my receivers have a 2-channel stereo direct feature of some kind, but only my Onkyo has the feature allowing me to send bass to the sub-woofer output jack when it is set to Pure Direct Audio.

Every time I have conducted experiments with my gear, I have learned something new. One thing I have observed with all of my AV Receivers is that the manuals are not very well written. My guess is that the manuals contents are written by people whose native language is not English. I have also observed that the people who write these manuals assume that every reader is very familiar with the arcane terminology associated with high-end audio - with the result being that things are glossed over or poorly explained. Some of my experiments have yielded results which don't seem to be covered at all in the manuals.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that these devices are very feature-rich and very complex, with many interactive possibilities, depending upon the settings in use.

So, I think experimenting should be the norm, rather than the exception.

Thanks for your comments.

Best,

Art