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Some Thoughts About Signal Processing and Music
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ArthurDaniels
Posted
9 years 6 months ago
I have been experimenting with different listening options available with my AV setup for listening to music. These experiments have caused me to think about how signals are processed with different approaches. For example:
The simplest of all signal paths might be from an analog turntable through a stereo amplifier to a pair of front L/R speakers. Since the entire signal path is analog, the signal processing might be the least possible available and, therefore, the sound quality would be limited only by the ability of the components involved to produce the "purest sound".
Contrast the above all-analog setup with a complex multi-channel surround-sound system with a CD player connected via analog cables to an AV Receiver which is set up to provide multi-channel sound to an array of front, front-high, side, and rear speakers plus one or two sub-woofers. Here the signal path would include DAC conversion within the CD player, followed by ADC conversion within the Receiver to digitize the signals again for processing under whatever multi-channel sound format is chosen (Dolby, etc.), then followed by another DAC to convert the signals back to analog form for distribution to the speaker array through multiple channels of amplification. In this setup, obviously there are many more chances for introduction of unwanted elements to the music.
In between these two examples are several other optional set up arrangements, such as sending the CD signals into the AV Receiver as digital rather than analog signals, thus avoiding two conversions (the DAC in the player and the ADC conversion in the Receiver).
In all cases, the resultant final sound being heard is influenced by a number of other factors, such as room configurations, speaker placements, cabling, and not least by any means, personal preferences, limitations imposed by an individual's hearing acuity, and the types of music being reproduced.
In my case, with my equipment, room configuration, personal preferences, etc., I have found that the best sound for me results from sending analog signals from my CD player into my AV Receiver, then setting the receiver into the "Pure Direct" listening mode which avoids any additional DAC/ADC conversions, but which also limits the sound from my AV Receiver to two-channel L/R Front speakers plus "Direct Analog" sub-woofer. I am using other speakers as well for music reproduction, but they are being driven by additional Receivers. But, I am continuing to experiment with different options available within my setup and listening to favorite musical selections to hear the results.
With all of the options available, I believe that there could never be one solution that is best for everyone. Therefore, I encourage everyone to experiment with the different options available to them to find their own "best sound" for music reproduction.
As for video with multi-channel sound, the best setup is probably going to be very different, so being able to switch from one setup to another is likely to be a great advantage to enjoying "best sound" from both music and audio/video sources.
Comments anyone?
Best,
Art
The simplest of all signal paths might be from an analog turntable through a stereo amplifier to a pair of front L/R speakers. Since the entire signal path is analog, the signal processing might be the least possible available and, therefore, the sound quality would be limited only by the ability of the components involved to produce the "purest sound".
Contrast the above all-analog setup with a complex multi-channel surround-sound system with a CD player connected via analog cables to an AV Receiver which is set up to provide multi-channel sound to an array of front, front-high, side, and rear speakers plus one or two sub-woofers. Here the signal path would include DAC conversion within the CD player, followed by ADC conversion within the Receiver to digitize the signals again for processing under whatever multi-channel sound format is chosen (Dolby, etc.), then followed by another DAC to convert the signals back to analog form for distribution to the speaker array through multiple channels of amplification. In this setup, obviously there are many more chances for introduction of unwanted elements to the music.
In between these two examples are several other optional set up arrangements, such as sending the CD signals into the AV Receiver as digital rather than analog signals, thus avoiding two conversions (the DAC in the player and the ADC conversion in the Receiver).
In all cases, the resultant final sound being heard is influenced by a number of other factors, such as room configurations, speaker placements, cabling, and not least by any means, personal preferences, limitations imposed by an individual's hearing acuity, and the types of music being reproduced.
In my case, with my equipment, room configuration, personal preferences, etc., I have found that the best sound for me results from sending analog signals from my CD player into my AV Receiver, then setting the receiver into the "Pure Direct" listening mode which avoids any additional DAC/ADC conversions, but which also limits the sound from my AV Receiver to two-channel L/R Front speakers plus "Direct Analog" sub-woofer. I am using other speakers as well for music reproduction, but they are being driven by additional Receivers. But, I am continuing to experiment with different options available within my setup and listening to favorite musical selections to hear the results.
With all of the options available, I believe that there could never be one solution that is best for everyone. Therefore, I encourage everyone to experiment with the different options available to them to find their own "best sound" for music reproduction.
As for video with multi-channel sound, the best setup is probably going to be very different, so being able to switch from one setup to another is likely to be a great advantage to enjoying "best sound" from both music and audio/video sources.
Comments anyone?
Best,
Art
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, T Cobe
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WayneWilmeth
Posted
9 years 6 months ago
Hey Art,
I agree, we all have to try the different input/output/processing vs throughput options until you find what sounds best with your system.
I am in that process now, having just installed a XMC-1 as pre-processor in my system.
I am now trying to figure out what is the best for 2 channel and for surround sound--MOSTLY surround sound.
Keep up the good work Art,
Enjoy the tunes,
God Bless,
Wayne
I agree, we all have to try the different input/output/processing vs throughput options until you find what sounds best with your system.
I am in that process now, having just installed a XMC-1 as pre-processor in my system.
I am now trying to figure out what is the best for 2 channel and for surround sound--MOSTLY surround sound.
Keep up the good work Art,
Enjoy the tunes,
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
The following user(s) said Thank You: T Cobe
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T Cobe
Posted
9 years 6 months ago
Art,
Thanks for getting the thread started. I have found that my Oppo does a better job as a DAC than my receiver and listen to stereo music transmitted to my receiver in analog. Too many levels of processing/conversion seems to strip the music of it's essence. It is far less rich and lacks depth if I listen through the HDMI cable.
Wayne,
Glad you're finally getting around to setting up the XMC-1. I hope that means you have your amps back as well. I look forward to hearing your impressions on the Emotiva. Happy listening!
Cheers,
T Cobe
Thanks for getting the thread started. I have found that my Oppo does a better job as a DAC than my receiver and listen to stereo music transmitted to my receiver in analog. Too many levels of processing/conversion seems to strip the music of it's essence. It is far less rich and lacks depth if I listen through the HDMI cable.
Wayne,
Glad you're finally getting around to setting up the XMC-1. I hope that means you have your amps back as well. I look forward to hearing your impressions on the Emotiva. Happy listening!
Cheers,
T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth
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rjohn79395
Posted
9 years 6 months ago
WayneWilmeth wrote: Hey Art,
I agree, we all have to try the different input/output/processing vs throughput options until you find what sounds best with your system.
I am in that process now, having just installed a XMC-1 as pre-processor in my system.
I am now trying to figure out what is the best for 2 channel and for surround sound--MOSTLY surround sound.
Keep up the good work Art,
Enjoy the tunes,
God Bless,
Wayne
Hi, Wayne, Art et al
I've just gotten back from travelling for a couple weeks, and am catching up. I have been listening to music on various sources, mostly car audio, and definitely have a GE deficiency! I'm catching up as I write.
Re comments about different ways of listening to music, I agree totally... try whatever you want.. it's what works for you.
I love listening to my T1's in stereo direct.. they are amazing. BUT, like Wayne, I LOVE surround music. My favorite listening combination is T1's front, T2's surrounds, SCXL at -8 db in what NAD calls enhanced stereo. I just love how the T2's and SCXL bring the music more into the room, make it more 3D. I know it adds an extra digital to analog step, but I sure love the result!
I seriously doubt there is a "bad" way to listen to GE speakers!
Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2 + SuperSub XXL, HTR 7000 top fronts, HTR 8000 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
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ArthurDaniels
Posted
9 years 6 months ago
Hi, Wayne, Art et al
I've just gotten back from travelling for a couple weeks, and am catching up. I have been listening to music on various sources, mostly car audio, and definitely have a GE deficiency! I'm catching up as I write.
Re comments about different ways of listening to music, I agree totally... try whatever you want.. it's what works for you.
I love listening to my T1's in stereo direct.. they are amazing. BUT, like Wayne, I LOVE surround music. My favorite listening combination is T1's front, T2's surrounds, SCXL at -8 db in what NAD calls enhanced stereo. I just love how the T2's and SCXL bring the music more into the room, make it more 3D. I know it adds an extra digital to analog step, but I sure love the result!
I seriously doubt there is a "bad" way to listen to GE speakers!
Rick[/quote]
Hi Rick,
I, too, have been having some fun experimenting with different combinations. I have a pair of Triton Ones up Front and a pair of Triton Sevens in the rear of my room, driven by a separate amplifier and connected as "Rear Fronts". I also have two sets of surround speakers, each set driven by a separate AV Receiver. Currently, I am listening to the Triton Ones in Pure Direct, the Triton Sevens with a Concert Hall simulation and the Upper Surrounds in the NEO 6 Music mode. Plus a rear Paradigm Sub in addition to the subs in the Triton Ones. If the original recording has any reverb, I set the Triton Sevens to Analog Direct.
I agree with you - there is no wrong way to listen, but I am unlikely to ever deviate from the Pure Direct mode for my Triton Ones.
Best,
Art
I've just gotten back from travelling for a couple weeks, and am catching up. I have been listening to music on various sources, mostly car audio, and definitely have a GE deficiency! I'm catching up as I write.
Re comments about different ways of listening to music, I agree totally... try whatever you want.. it's what works for you.
I love listening to my T1's in stereo direct.. they are amazing. BUT, like Wayne, I LOVE surround music. My favorite listening combination is T1's front, T2's surrounds, SCXL at -8 db in what NAD calls enhanced stereo. I just love how the T2's and SCXL bring the music more into the room, make it more 3D. I know it adds an extra digital to analog step, but I sure love the result!
I seriously doubt there is a "bad" way to listen to GE speakers!
Rick[/quote]
Hi Rick,
I, too, have been having some fun experimenting with different combinations. I have a pair of Triton Ones up Front and a pair of Triton Sevens in the rear of my room, driven by a separate amplifier and connected as "Rear Fronts". I also have two sets of surround speakers, each set driven by a separate AV Receiver. Currently, I am listening to the Triton Ones in Pure Direct, the Triton Sevens with a Concert Hall simulation and the Upper Surrounds in the NEO 6 Music mode. Plus a rear Paradigm Sub in addition to the subs in the Triton Ones. If the original recording has any reverb, I set the Triton Sevens to Analog Direct.
I agree with you - there is no wrong way to listen, but I am unlikely to ever deviate from the Pure Direct mode for my Triton Ones.
Best,
Art
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