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Moderator
Posted
7 years 5 months ago
Yikes ... I had hoped this would self correct, but since this is not an engineering forum it has not. So ... let me address some confusion here.
First off, pick up some audio engineering text books if you want to learn about this stuff. This is not the place for that.
Wayne, the "Marketing Spec" is the 1200 watts rating. As previously stated, it is about 860 RMS watts delivered to the two drivers (per speaker) across the covered frequencies (about 20Hz to 250Hz in a Triton Two). As Sandy likes to point out, anyone else would probably call that 1750 Peak (Marketing) watts.
RMS power in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on bass volume level and extension. A combination of amplifier power and driver attributes (impedance, driver size and throw, enclosure volume and type, and more) create the result. 10 Watts driving a 15" driver in a 10 liter box is about the same as driving two 5x9 drivers in a 2 liter box with 2000 watts, in terms of the possible resulting output and extension.
Not sure what you think "tuning frequency" is, bui it has nothing to do with power requirements in this case, and the Triton Two plays bass room flat to about 24 Hz. And just to be clear, there absolutely are not "many full range tower speakers out there that have similar -3db points to the Triton 2s" - there is basically no such thing as a passive tower with that kind of bass extension and output. (I am NOT including gigantic speakers that no one wants in their home.)
Finally, Wayne is correct. These speakers are for listening. Following the numbers will get you to the wrong place every time - especially if you have no idea what the numbers mean.
First off, pick up some audio engineering text books if you want to learn about this stuff. This is not the place for that.
Wayne, the "Marketing Spec" is the 1200 watts rating. As previously stated, it is about 860 RMS watts delivered to the two drivers (per speaker) across the covered frequencies (about 20Hz to 250Hz in a Triton Two). As Sandy likes to point out, anyone else would probably call that 1750 Peak (Marketing) watts.
RMS power in and of itself has absolutely no bearing on bass volume level and extension. A combination of amplifier power and driver attributes (impedance, driver size and throw, enclosure volume and type, and more) create the result. 10 Watts driving a 15" driver in a 10 liter box is about the same as driving two 5x9 drivers in a 2 liter box with 2000 watts, in terms of the possible resulting output and extension.
Not sure what you think "tuning frequency" is, bui it has nothing to do with power requirements in this case, and the Triton Two plays bass room flat to about 24 Hz. And just to be clear, there absolutely are not "many full range tower speakers out there that have similar -3db points to the Triton 2s" - there is basically no such thing as a passive tower with that kind of bass extension and output. (I am NOT including gigantic speakers that no one wants in their home.)
Finally, Wayne is correct. These speakers are for listening. Following the numbers will get you to the wrong place every time - especially if you have no idea what the numbers mean.
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth
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Buckchester
Posted
7 years 5 months ago
Thanks for the information, although it would behoove you to be a little bit less condescending in your posts. Especially to Golden Ear customers. But I will give you credit for responding. I figured I was going to get the cone of silence.
As you so succinctly alluded to, I am no audio engineer. So, I do have more questions.
How was the 1,200 watt rating derived, and why was that the one Golden Ear decided to use? Most companies show RMS and peak output. Why doesn’t Golden Ear do this?
Regarding your claim that the Triton Two can play flat down to 24hz, that must be with room gain, in a smaller room than mine because my room is about 3,000 cubic feet, and measured with REW the Triton Two starts to roll off steeply at around 30hz. The -3db point in my room is likely just below that, but above 24hz. Without room gain:
www.soundandvision.com/content/goldenear...two-ht-labs-measures
“The –3-dB point is at 44 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 36 Hz.”
While I agree the Triton Two produces excellent bass that not many other floor standers can match, don’t act like it’s the only game in town. Here’s a passive speaker that seems to have comparable measurements:
www.soundandvision.com/content/test-repo...peaker-system-page-3
For the record, I am very happy with my Triton Twos. Given the record that many audio companies have with providing honest, trustworthy information, I was skeptical of the claim. I seek to be enlightened.
As you so succinctly alluded to, I am no audio engineer. So, I do have more questions.
How was the 1,200 watt rating derived, and why was that the one Golden Ear decided to use? Most companies show RMS and peak output. Why doesn’t Golden Ear do this?
Regarding your claim that the Triton Two can play flat down to 24hz, that must be with room gain, in a smaller room than mine because my room is about 3,000 cubic feet, and measured with REW the Triton Two starts to roll off steeply at around 30hz. The -3db point in my room is likely just below that, but above 24hz. Without room gain:
www.soundandvision.com/content/goldenear...two-ht-labs-measures
“The –3-dB point is at 44 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 36 Hz.”
While I agree the Triton Two produces excellent bass that not many other floor standers can match, don’t act like it’s the only game in town. Here’s a passive speaker that seems to have comparable measurements:
www.soundandvision.com/content/test-repo...peaker-system-page-3
For the record, I am very happy with my Triton Twos. Given the record that many audio companies have with providing honest, trustworthy information, I was skeptical of the claim. I seek to be enlightened.
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Posted
7 years 5 months ago
You're welcome. And sorry, I find the line between helpful and condescending to be hard to define in writing/reading emails of this sort. And, as all here will attest, I don't tend to waste too many key strokes on pleasantries. So, that said, thanks for being on the forum and thanks for your nice comments about your Triton Twos, we are thrilled you are enjoying them.
OK, in answer to your latest questions:
The 1200 watt rating is what Sandy has chosen to indicate. The RMS watts were given to you (and others) when asked, but Sandy feels very strongly that measurements are subject to false comparison, wrong interpretations, and misleading overtones. He feels they absolutely send people off to make bad buying decisions and he wants no part of it (hence the perfunctory specs for basically everything other than dimensions and weight). He is the most successful specialty speaker designer/seller in the history of the loudspeaker industry, so I'm sticking with his opinion on these matters (which, btw, I happen to agree with, based on 40 years of listening experiences as a member of the high performance audio industry). And your skepticism is well founded (and is another reason Sandy avoids the specs games) , all the more reason to believe (only) your ears, independent reviewers, and product owners in forums like this one.
With room gain (I don't listen to speakers outside, do you?) and, from my extensive experience with low frequency room interactions and correction, it is the only meaningful spec. The only good apples-to-apples comparison one could make would be to have speakers in the same room and compare in-room bass measurements. Sound & Vision got it wrong because they used a poor method. Other reviewers/magazines did much better.
The speaker you mentioned compares to a Triton Five in bass performance. Listen to a Five vs. a Triton Two and see if you think they have similar bass capabilities.
OK, in answer to your latest questions:
The 1200 watt rating is what Sandy has chosen to indicate. The RMS watts were given to you (and others) when asked, but Sandy feels very strongly that measurements are subject to false comparison, wrong interpretations, and misleading overtones. He feels they absolutely send people off to make bad buying decisions and he wants no part of it (hence the perfunctory specs for basically everything other than dimensions and weight). He is the most successful specialty speaker designer/seller in the history of the loudspeaker industry, so I'm sticking with his opinion on these matters (which, btw, I happen to agree with, based on 40 years of listening experiences as a member of the high performance audio industry). And your skepticism is well founded (and is another reason Sandy avoids the specs games) , all the more reason to believe (only) your ears, independent reviewers, and product owners in forums like this one.
With room gain (I don't listen to speakers outside, do you?) and, from my extensive experience with low frequency room interactions and correction, it is the only meaningful spec. The only good apples-to-apples comparison one could make would be to have speakers in the same room and compare in-room bass measurements. Sound & Vision got it wrong because they used a poor method. Other reviewers/magazines did much better.
The speaker you mentioned compares to a Triton Five in bass performance. Listen to a Five vs. a Triton Two and see if you think they have similar bass capabilities.
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, rjohn79395
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rjohn79395
Posted
7 years 5 months ago
Last edit: 7 years 5 months ago by rjohn79395.
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#19412
Here's my one and only take on the amp watts/Tritons issue: I don't doubt the amps in the powered Tritons are "loafing" at a pretty low percent of max power most of the time. And whether they are delivering X or Z or Y watts over time, all I really know and appreciate is that when a scene in a movie throws an explosion or other wild sound at the speakers, the T1's and T2's, LFE fed, just "go nuts" with breastbone shaking, furniture rattling bass (I've quietly moved some of my wife's favorite china before it gets a chance to break). I have no idea what the momentary power draw to the Triton's subs is when that happens, but I an SO happy those bad boys can BLAST the way they do.
I view the Triton watt sub ratings as reserve for "when you really need that extra OOMPH", not for any kind of continuous high load power handling in that range. I've listened to lots of HT, including movie theater stuff. I have yet to hear the raw, clean, breastbone shaking bass I can get from my GEt Triton towers elsewhere, however they do it and whatever watt draw they use when they "go nuts".
Somebody at GEt got it right.
Rick
I view the Triton watt sub ratings as reserve for "when you really need that extra OOMPH", not for any kind of continuous high load power handling in that range. I've listened to lots of HT, including movie theater stuff. I have yet to hear the raw, clean, breastbone shaking bass I can get from my GEt Triton towers elsewhere, however they do it and whatever watt draw they use when they "go nuts".
Somebody at GEt got it right.
Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2 + SuperSub XXL, HTR 7000 top fronts, HTR 8000 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
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