@Moderator.

In response to your question, my room dimensions are 12ft wide, 25ft long, 8ft feet high ceilings. Speakers are set apart 7 feet and essentially form an equilateral triangle to the PLP. I usually listen about 85 db but that varies at times +/- 15 db or so.

Also, I note (with a meter) that while the 85 db listening level is at the PLP, despite the speakers being only 7 feet away, the decibel level 1 foot in front of the speaker can peak 10 db or so higher than the PLP. And I know (among other reasons based on my volume dial basically at the 9 o'clock position) I'm using little wattage compared to what my amp is capable of. Also, I'm running balanced connections to my amp which comes in +6 db hotter than SE.

Thanks. As always, your input is appreciated.

Great questions, GDHAL!

And thanks for a comprehensive answer, Moderator Dude!

My own experience is that lots of quality power back-up in an amp just plain makes for more punch, dynamics, maybe even clarity. When I've added external amps with more reserve to power speakers previously powered by the AVR, the result has been all of the above. Especially punch, dynamics. Lots depends on the components involved I'm sure, but reserve power sure plays a role...

Rick

Moderator Dude and I are on the same page about power. I'm beginning to think you can't have too much.

GDHAL, I think we're in a bit of a semantics argument. I see two things that are important: steady state volume with sound quality, and power to handle transient dynamics. You can get great steady state sound from low-power tube amps. Where you hear the difference with power isn't in the volume (that's a function of amplifier gain), but in how the system handles sharp transients like rim shots on a drum. Moderator Dude (and most others) call it slam; I think of it more as SNAP. It's the ability of the system to follow large signal changes and keep up with them. This is something I don't think a low-power amplifier can do, no matter how sweet it may sound normally.

I heard several differences when I changed to my 300 W (600 into 4 ohms) amplifiers. Part of it was the character of the sound itself, especially highs (the steady state thing). Sweeter. smoother. That was certainly better and probably had little to do with power. But the thing that really impressed me -- and still does -- with the new amps is the extremely fast dynamics, the SNAP. I hear fine details and sharp attacks way better than I did with the other amp, and I think that aspect is purely a function of power. Hmm, maybe I should try those $100k Boulder 1kW amps I saw in Stereophile. Wait! No! SLAP!

Certainly, you need enough power in your amp to fill the room to a volume you want to listen to. And it really doesn't take much, as you point out. After all, speaker specs are based on 1W at 1 meter. Plenty loud, and the TRefs are so efficient that they will play plenty loud with little steady state power.

Transients are another thing altogether, and you need power to force those speaker cones to MOVE.

Charlie

Charlie, no disagreement with what you've stated. Thanks. I'd like to "digest" this for the moment

GDHAL wrote: My speakers are 7 feet apart and unfortunately I have little or no choice but to place a flat screen between them. I’m finding that I need to crank at least a watt to get the center image I desire. Even so, in my case I’d likely get better imaging if the flat screen were removed. So while additional wattage overcomes the flat screen obstacle to some extent, it could also be the case that at 7 feet apart one really should drive them with 2, 3 or even more watts.

GDHAL,

My room is 19 ft long by 15 ft wide, with a slanted ceiling that is 8 ft at the front, going up to 12 ft at the back. My Trefs are 4 ft from the front wall and 9 1/2 ft apart (also forming an equilateral triangle with the PLP). I also have a 65 inch flat screen in the middle, just back from the plane of the speaker drivers. All that blather aside, I have absolutely laser sharp imaging that I've tested with many different recordings and test tracks. I have never noticed that the imaging is volume dependent.

I don't think having a flat screen there has much effect on imaging. If you ray trace the sound path, there are only very thin corners on the TV (and it's support cabinet) that can reflect higher frequency sound toward the listening position. This is even less given that the speaker dispersion pattern at higher frequencies drops off considerably as you move around to the side. (I'm basing this statement on the pattern measured by John Atkinson in the Stereophile review of the T1s.) Because of this, I think any reflections off the TV are very low amplitude compared to the direct arrival at the listening position.

Side wall reflections are another possibility, but given my toe in (aimed at a point just behind the listener) and the dispersion pattern, the energy hitting the side walls is also significantly lower in amplitude than the direct energy. Also, my room is peculiar in that I have an opening to the kitchen on the right wall right at the primary reflection point. On the left wall it's solid wall and a glass slider door. I have curtains there to try to mitigate that. Even with my side wall asymmetry, the imaging is spectacular at even at low listening levels.

The only technical issue I can think of at the moment is that, if you have an analog pot volume control, then when you turn down the volume to low levels, the pot may produce unequal voltage outputs for the two stereo channels. (I have read of this being a problem.) That would certainly mess up the imaging.

All I can think of for now, anyway.

Charlie

Charlie, you are a voice of reason and clarity here. I am so very glad of your participation in this forum.
You always think things through and explain them very well.
I think you are right on above. Especially referring to your post before last about amplifier power during the smooth and steady parts being one requirement but then the transients and loud parts requiring a LOT more power that had to be there in reserve all along.
As efficient as our Triton Towers are, and I appreciate that, and as much as I love TOOBS, in practice and real world listening, I really believe amplifier power wattage with at least 3 digits (two zeros needed) is a must. My lowest power amp is for my SC X center, it is a hybrid pure Class A 100 watts at 8 ohms, so surely more than that for the center. And my GEt center SINGS!!!!
God Bless,
Wayne